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Old 08-30-2006, 09:12 AM
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And then God created...

... evolution.
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Old 08-31-2006, 07:03 AM
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I had a high school biology teacher who was also a Baptist minister. He too offered the possibility of evolution being God's method of creation. I thought it was hogwash then as well.
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:10 AM
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I think the Protestant word-for-word/literal interpretation is ridiculous.
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:17 AM
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OK, I may be using an oxymoron here. Not quite sure what words to use to replace the "literal interpretation", but IMO, literal interpretation of the Bible is not even possible. There are many different religious denominations claiming they take the Bible literally, but each of them is differently. Go figure.
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:44 AM
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By literal interpretation I mean those who believe only in the creationism theory...and completely discount the possibility that evolution played a role somewhere.

Make sense? I'm not good at explaining...
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:56 AM
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Literal interpretations are not a good thing I agree.

But on the other side, some people interpret too much as well so...

So on that note, let's go back to evolution... hold my nuts while I peel my banana...
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:11 AM
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Will I be lambasted if I say it's all a waste of time? (no pun intended, of course)
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Will I be lambasted if I say it's all a waste of time? (no pun intended, of course)
Spirited discussion is never a waste of time.

Evolution not only fails to stand by biblical standard (and not just using dogmatic literal interpretations) but becomes steadily less credible as new science emerges.
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:32 AM
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IMO it takes MORE faith to 'believe' in the evolution theory than it does to believe in God. Evolution is so far fetched -
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South
Spirited discussion is never a waste of time.

Evolution not only fails to stand by biblical standard (and not just using dogmatic literal interpretations) but becomes steadily less credible as new science emerges.
I disagree with your reference to the theory of evolution as a dogma. Religion however is a dogma or a set of them. I know of no dogmas in science that lie outside humanities. The term may be used sometimes in science in pejorative meaning, but science does not employ dogmas as religion does.

As for the credibility of evolution, the examples are right before out eyes. Well, maybe we can't always see them cuz they are tiny but... next time you or someone you know is prescribed antibiotics ask the doctor why is it important to finish up the whole prescribed quanity, even though the symptoms may disappear well before the pills do.
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie
Make sense? I'm not good at explaining...
I wasn't actually refering to your statements. I was kinda buying myself an insurance policy so others would have a harder time catching me on a technicality
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Old 08-31-2006, 11:56 AM
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You non-evolution believing types... do you deny that humans themselves have evolved over time?
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:02 PM
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The mechanics of some life forms are far too complex for evolution to sufficiently explain, IMO. I will admit that this does not make a case for "faith", but, I have always believed the fundamentals of the bible story, not all, but what I see as the basic important ones. I should however add that my actions have not always reflected this "belief".
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atom
The mechanics of some life forms are far too complex for evolution to sufficiently explain, IMO.
That's why the title I gave this thread is not necessarilly as frivolous as it may seem.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:11 PM
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I don't believe in only evolution or only creationism, but rather, some combination of the two.
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleFella
I disagree with your reference to the theory of evolution as a dogma. Religion however is a dogma or a set of them. I know of no dogmas in science that lie outside humanities. The term may be used sometimes in science in pejorative meaning, but science does not employ dogmas as religion does.
I was referring to dogmatic biblical interpretation, not evolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littleFella
As for the credibility of evolution, the examples are right before out eyes. Well, maybe we can't always see them cuz they are tiny but... next time you or someone you know is prescribed antibiotics ask the doctor why is it important to finish up the whole prescribed quanity, even though the symptoms may disappear well before the pills do.
Environmental adaptation for survival is a poor argument to support natural spontatious generation and the subsequent creation of hundreds of thousands of genetically differing species. I'm sorry, but the concept of evolution is ludacris. Evolution is a "scientific" theory that relies on an acception to the scientific fact that prohibits spontatious generation of life in nature.

Molecular biology is beginning to, and will eventually squash all hopes of evolutionists. The bonds we once thought were solid between ourselves and our supposed ansestors don't stand the test.

At one time we KNEW the earth was flat, we KNEW the sun revolved around the earth. What science "knows" changes as new information is found and new forms of aquiring it are discovered.

The only way I can see to accept the world as anything other than intelligent design is to specifically want to reject intelligent design, or take anything a person with a PHD tells you as fact. Evolution remains a theory because it cannot be proven.

Adaptation and evolution aren't the same thing. The ability for a being to adapt for survival in a changing environment is just one more point for intelligent design.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South
I was referring to dogmatic biblical interpretation, not evolution.
OK, my mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
Environmental adaptation for survival is a poor argument to support natural spontatious generation and the subsequent creation of hundreds of thousands of genetically differing species. I'm sorry, but the concept of evolution is ludacris.
Why is it a poor argument if one of the essential elemets of evolution is the statement that species adapt to their environmet? That's not an argument, that is one of the propositions of the theory of evolution. The enviroments in which we find life are vastly different from one another so it seems logical that the species most adapted to their respective environments will be different than those living in other environments.

From Wikipedia:

"The basic mechanisms that produce evolutionary change are natural selection (which includes ecological, sexual and kin selection) and genetic drift[...]"


Quote:
Originally Posted by South
Evolution is a "scientific" theory that relies on an acception to the scientific fact that prohibits spontatious generation of life in nature.
Never heard about that. Or perhaps I am not understanding what you mean by "spontatious generation of life".

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
Molecular biology is beginning to, and will eventually squash all hopes of evolutionists. The bonds we once thought were solid between ourselves and our supposed ansestors don't stand the test.
You can't mix the present and future tense like that. We don;t know what molecular biology will prove, hence as of today we can't say that something has or hasn't stood the test of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
At one time we KNEW the earth was flat, we KNEW the sun revolved around the earth. What science "knows" changes as new information is found and new forms of aquiring it are discovered.
Actually, the flatness of the Earth was a religious dogma defended fiercely by Churtch, and "scientists" of the time worked hard to keeop the dogma alive. True science abolished the dogma, and some were even burnt at the stake for the "blasphemy". Btw. the guy responsible for abolishing the Catholic dogma was himself a Catholic bishop. He conveniently died the same year when the result of his work were published.

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
The only way I can see to accept the world as anything other than intelligent design is to specifically want to reject intelligent design, or take anything a person with a PHD tells you as fact.
What if God set the evolution in motion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
Evolution remains a theory because it cannot be proven.
The word "theory" in this context doesn't men something unproven. Whether it can, or cannot be proven... I already mentioned we cannot really debate what will or will not happen in the future and expect to find the answer right now.
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:09 PM
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Here is my eight year old daughter's take on the situation trying to convince her little sister and friend. She makes more sense than you guys.
 
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleFella
Why is it a poor argument if one of the essential elemets of evolution is the statement that species adapt to their environmet? That's not an argument, that is one of the propositions of the theory of evolution. The enviroments in which we find life are vastly different from one another so it seems logical that the species most adapted to their respective environments will be different than those living in other environments.

From Wikipedia:

"The basic mechanisms that produce evolutionary change are natural selection (which includes ecological, sexual and kin selection) and genetic drift[...]"


It's a poor argument because whether you hold to creation or evolution, you still have to deal with "In the beginning". Where there was no life now there is. I beleive that came about through supernatural means. You beleive that came about by........? That's spontanious generation of life. Are you assuming that a dead organism can spontaniously become a living organism?


Quote:
You can't mix the present and future tense like that. We don;t know what molecular biology will prove, hence as of today we can't say that something has or hasn't stood the test of time.
I'm talking about the here and the now. Through the understanding of the new evidence molecular biology offers evolution is springing leaks.[/quote]

Quote:
Actually, the flatness of the Earth was a religious dogma defended fiercely by Churtch, and "scientists" of the time worked hard to keeop the dogma alive. True science abolished the dogma, and some were even burnt at the stake for the "blasphemy". Btw. the guy responsible for abolishing the Catholic dogma was himself a Catholic bishop. He conveniently died the same year when the result of his work were published.
My point is that what we accept as natural reality changes frequently.

Quote:
What if God set the evolution in motion?
I have a client. Back in a bit.
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Old 08-31-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South
It's a poor argument because whether you hold to creation or evolution, you still have to deal with "In the beginning". Where there was no life now there is. I beleive that came about through supernatural means. You beleive that came about by........? That's spontanious generation of life. Are you assuming that a dead organism can spontaniously become a living organism?
The beginning, which scientists call Planck time, is something that they have no explanation for. Before the beginning, according to physics, nothing material existed. Science deals only with the material, or that which can be attrubuted to the material. That could be actually an inderect proof of the supernatural. Call it God or whatever you feel comfortable with. Science doesn't go there. I made a post on that a while ago, not sure if it's still around.

The spontaneous generation of life out of inanimate matter is certainly a possibility. We consist of inanimate objects (atoms and such). Besides, according to the Bible God created people out of inanimate object. There is no proof that he did, and there is no proof that he didn't. Even if his role was just to set the whole life cycle in motion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
I'm talking about the here and the now. Through the understanding of the new evidence molecular biology offers evolution is springing leaks.
About the only argument against evolution and stemming from scientific doscovery is that it is incomprhensible that such complex structures as living organisms could have been designed via accident and evolution. That is not much of an argument. In the history of science many things seemed incomprehensible, only to become obvious some yeas later. Pesteur was ridiculed by the French Academy of Science on the grounds that it would be impossible for for organisms such as bacteria and viruses to harm human body. After all, claimed the Academy, humans are bigger than the bacteria. How could they loose this uneven battle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by South
My point is that what we accept as natural reality changes frequently.

I have a client. Back in a bit.
Mine is that should we accept that God does exists, He/She may be the cause and creator of all living things through evolution. What if the evolution is the method God uses to create new species and to modify the existing ones. He did make a bunch of mistakes and changed his mind a few times (the Biblical one). He may be still working on what it really means to be human.

As I read somewhere, the missing link between the apes and humans are us

Going home, chat with you later
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