The Pope Vs. Islam

[jg_v7n]

The Pope did not give offence yet his enemies took it.

Taking offence is a blackmail strategy and any excuse, real or imagined, will do: it is seen in the belligerent drunk, growling “What are you lookin’ at?” or the gang member who draws a knife because he has been “dissed”. It works because polite, educated respondents try to treat this as a real question, to apologise and negotiate.

You cannot negotiate with a drunk or a knife, and you cannot negotiate with those who manufacture offence as a weapon.

[Ferre]

They are all religious fanatic nutters, both fanatic Christians and fanatic muslims.

Without the centuries during hate they both spread on this planet humanity would all be a lot better off.

As a person who does not believe in either one of their doctrines I wish they would just go away and stop making this planet a mess for us normal people who don't need their fanatic and agressive crap.

[jg_v7n]

This sort of arguement sometimes makes me think its like two people arguing whether 2+2 equals 5 or 6.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by jg_v7n

This sort of arguement sometimes makes me think its like two people arguing whether 2+2 equals 5 or 6.

Explain?

[Mia]

While I agree that there are fanatics on both sides of the isle, the Christian fanatics don't seem to be cutting heads off, nor do they seem to be burning things down when someone makes fun of a religious icon, ie., mohammad or Jesus for instance.

Either way, I agree that the Pope did nothing wrong. He has nothing to apologize for. It was only a matter of time before radical Islam got pissed at the Pope too. What's next?

[jg_v7n]

Well, Christians argue that you should live by the word of God and Muslims argue that you should live by the word of Allah.

When of course in the real world the sensible thing to do is to live by your own standards.

Arguing between religions, seems futile and pointless, like arguing about the answer to two plus two. It is of course four, but neither religion seems to have noticed; they seem hell bent on destroying each other in order that their own "answer" be it five or six or something else be taken as correct.

[Ferre]

jg_v7n, my thoughts exactly. I study history as a hobby for over 30 years now and every single period of time is overshadowed by wars from those religions against other cultures. In all fairness, Christianity has whiped out entire cultures which the muslims have never done on such a massive scale.

Nevertheless, both those religions are populated by powermongering sociopaths who somehow can manage to get into very high positions within their organised structures and both those religions scare the hell out of anyone who knows history.

Just look at that situation with the Pope now, of course he could have anticipated that his remarks would piss off many people from 'the other side', he is not such an idiot that he doesn't know what his remarks will have for an effect in the present situation but he had to say it anyway, putting more oil on the fire.

As I said, I wished they all would just vanish and stop bothering us with their crap.

[chicgeek]

Isn't this very much a thread that belongs in politics?

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by chicgeek

Isn't this very much a thread that belongs in politics?

I guess you are right, as religion is mainly used to manipulate politics anyway.

*Moved

[chicgeek]

Political reaction to a religious statement, indeed.

Whoa, I'm posting in the Politics boards. I feel dirty.

[South]

Originally Posted by Ferre

They are all religious fanatic nutters, both fanatic Christians and fanatic muslims.

Without the centuries during hate they both spread on this planet humanity would all be a lot better off.

As a person who does not believe in either one of their doctrines I wish they would just go away and stop making this planet a mess for us normal people who don't need their fanatic and agressive crap.

No different than secularism bashing religion, which has also been done violently throughout history with no more concern for bloodletting than any religeously fueled conflict.

I maintain for the record that anyone agressing toward anyone in the name of Christianity does so contrary to the scripture and does not represent the faith as it's written. I do, however, understand how those outside of the faith make the connection and condemnation since it's been done so often.

If I wanted to purposely make your country look bad, I would form a hate group and march under your flag. Eventually those with little knowledge of your country would come to associate it with hate.

[Ferre]

Well, it wasn't the shamans or the atheists who whiped themselves out as much as possible during the inquisition now was it?

But I do understand where you're coming from, it's a common good for Christians to claim that other christians who commit crimes are "not real Christians", it's just coincidence that a couple of million fakers support those who do that.

Like this dude:

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.... We need believing people.
-- Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933

Btw, check out the Present Pope's whereabouts during the Hitler regime.

[South]

Originally Posted by Ferre

But I do understand where you're coming from, it's a common good for Christians to claim that other christians who commit crimes are "not real Christians", it's just coincidence that a couple of million fakers support those who do that.

It's not about claims at all. Claims are empty. Do the actions of the group reflect the scripture? If so, they're acting as Christians, if it doesn't they're not. Simple.

As for your quote. Does the scripture promote the torture and gassing of masses of innocent people and militant conquest?

[Ferre]

As for that quote, it shows that the hearts of the christian people can be won by mentioning support for christianity and that christians follow any idiot as long as the idiot makes sure to mention 'christian values' regulary.

History shows numerous examples of this weird effect that mentioning christian slogans have on them, they'll stand behind the biggest criminals as long as those criminals are 'one of them'.

Btw, without the support from the Christians, Hitler would never been able to do what he did because he would not have gained the power to do it all.

[jg_v7n]

My thought is; why follow a particular doctrine anyway? If you believe in God, why not find your own way to do what you believe he wants you to do? Why do you need a church to instuct you in how to live your life? Is it in fact because in reality God does not talk to you, you just wish that he did? And so you follow the teaching of a church in order that you may feel a connection where in fact - look deep into your heart - there is none?

[Mia]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Btw, without the support from the Christians, Hitler would never been able to do what he did because he would not have gained the power to do it all.

He did have the help of most of eastern Europe as well. Several countries come to mind.

[South]

Originally Posted by jg_v7n

My thought is; why follow a particular doctrine anyway? If you believe in God, why not find your own way to do what you believe he wants you to do? Why do you need a church to instuct you in how to live your life? Is it in fact because in reality God does not talk to you, you just wish that he did? And so you follow the teaching of a church in order that you may feel a connection where in fact - look deep into your heart - there is none?

You speak of what you don't know. Plain and clear.

[South]

Originally Posted by Ferre

As for that quote, it shows that the hearts of the christian people can be won by mentioning support for christianity and that christians follow any idiot as long as the idiot makes sure to mention 'christian values' regulary.

History shows numerous examples of this weird effect that mentioning christian slogans have on them, they'll stand behind the biggest criminals as long as those criminals are 'one of them'.

Btw, without the support from the Christians, Hitler would never been able to do what he did because he would not have gained the power to do it all.

You have a sore lack of understanding of the Christian faith.

[jg_v7n]

Originally Posted by South

You speak of what you don't know. Plain and clear.

Thats why I used so many question marks.

[South]

Originally Posted by jg_v7n

Thats why I used so many question marks.

Those weren't questions. They were baiting. If I'm wrong I apologize and will answer as best I can.