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Old 12-11-2014, 08:53 AM
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Tell Obama: Stop Mass Surveillance Under Executive Order 12333

https://act.eff.org/action/tell-obam...ve-order-12333

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Executive orders are legally binding orders given by the President of the United States which direct how government agencies should operate. Executive Order 12333 covers "most of what the NSA does" and is "the primary authority under which the country’s intelligence agencies conduct the majority of their operations." So while the U.S. Congress is considering bills to curtail mass telephone surveillance, the NSA’s primary surveillance authority will be left unchallenged.
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:59 AM
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I think we're well past the point of asking or telling government to clean it's own act up.
 
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:39 PM
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I'll be the odd man out.

Public utility. Public airwaves. What makes you think you have a right to privacy on those? And, what are you discussing that concerns you?

I don't give a rat's **** if the NSA listens to every call I make. Boredom is all they are likely to encounter.
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
I'll be the odd man out.

Public utility. Public airwaves. What makes you think you have a right to privacy on those? And, what are you discussing that concerns you?

I don't give a rat's **** if the NSA listens to every call I make. Boredom is all they are likely to encounter.

Sorry, but I really disagree with you ScriptMan. That is exactly the kind of attitude that lets the NSA continue what they are doing. Just because they are doing it doesn't make it okay. Just because you may not do anything illegal doesn't mean that you should give up a certain right or privilege. This is exactly the type of attitude that allows the government in the book 1984, Big Brother, possible. It is when people "give up" privileges just because they are not doing anything wrong. Before you know it, the government knows exactly what you are doing at every second and there is no personal freedom. Sorry for the rant, it just really irks me when people let the government continue to do something wrong, just because it doesn't personally affect that individual.
 
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Old 12-13-2014, 01:21 AM
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Ok, in reality do you guys really think that whatever we do regarding this will make them stop?

Wrong or not, they are intelligence agencies and it is their job to collect and collate information any way they can so as to stop potentially dangerous situations. Their job is to screen people (hopefully) for the good of the country.

Did you know that most faxes sent, all telephone calls made, text messages sent, emails etc etc are scanned for "trigger words" and if non found, then they are dropped. If some are found then auto systems pass them onto the relevant authorities.

Thing is, this sort of thing has been happening for at about the last 12 years and it won't stop.
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Old 12-13-2014, 05:59 AM
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Sorry, but I really disagree with you ScriptMan. That is exactly the kind of attitude that lets the NSA continue what they are doing. Just because they are doing it doesn't make it okay. Just because you may not do anything illegal doesn't mean that you should give up a certain right or privilege. This is exactly the type of attitude that allows the government in the book 1984, Big Brother, possible. It is when people "give up" privileges just because they are not doing anything wrong. Before you know it, the government knows exactly what you are doing at every second and there is no personal freedom. Sorry for the rant, it just really irks me when people let the government continue to do something wrong, just because it doesn't personally affect that individual.


Thanks for joining to add your comment. I really mean that and I hope you join some other threads.

The preamble to the Constitution states states in part "...insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare,....".

Times are far different now than when those words for written but IMO some communication monitoring fits well within those parameters.

The Bill of rights article 6 states in part, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures ............". Obviously phones or cell phones did not exist at that time but no form of the word "communication(s)" was mentioned. An omission by error or intent?

What cell phone do you carry? If you have the latest and greatest toy than they already can track your every move all day long if they want to. My phone is so old it still has buttons and is not GPS enabled.

Honestly, I don't think the government is doing anything wrong monitoring communications so I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one subject.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:09 AM
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Thanks for joining to add your comment. I really mean that and I hope you join some other threads.
Thank you! I hope to join some other threads.

I do have a newer phone and yes, I do know that my every movement is most likely tracked. Like I said earlier though, I'm not okay with it.

I understand where you are coming from and can agree that as for now the government is probably not being malicious by screening online activities. What bothers me is that this is a precedent for authoritarian-type governments. That this type of creeping into the lives of the people happens slowly over time, until soon maybe your kids or their kids live with the government watching their every move and this is something I really hope never happens.

Quote:
Honestly, I don't think the government is doing anything wrong monitoring communications so I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this one subject.
Yep I am perfectly okay with agreeing to disagree on subjects. Takes nothing away from the person I'm having an educated conversation with!
 
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Old 12-13-2014, 02:38 PM
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You are right and probably in the future this will happen. Governments will use this information for the wrong purpose.

I understand ones distrust in the system with this information, and you have every reason not to trust them, the thing is there is nothing we can do about it because (at present anyway) it is being used to protect us.
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by G10 View Post
I understand ones distrust in the system with this information, and you have every reason not to trust them, the thing is there is nothing we can do about it because (at present anyway) it is being used to protect us.
But really is this information being used to protect us? Are we safer now than we were 10 years ago? Can you be certain that this information is 100% used for our protection?

I mean there is no way of you making that claim for certain and there is no way that I can know for certain it is being used in the wrong way. I'm just saying that it is possible that it could lead to a abusive government. It could also lead to our protection like you say.

It's hard to say who is right, and I really hope you are right. I just do not want to wait and trust the government, only to find out later I was wrong and now there is no turning back. There hasn't been much lately out of any government to allow me to trust them, sadly.
 
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:23 AM
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We are a lot safer than governments would have us believe. The tactic of using FEAR to take away peoples liberties and make them feel "safer" has been one that has been around for a long time.

I actually agree with what you're saying and also think that the information will be used against people at some point.

At least you guys know what your intelligence agencies are up to. In my opinion, one of the scariest intelligence agencies in the world are the British ones as nobody ever hears a peep about what they do and that is scary. Heck, even with the USA's latest report on torture etc, the British Secrete Service contacted them and suggested they remove ALL British involvement within their dossier, and so they did.

Like the saying goes "It's the quiet ones you need to watch!"
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by G10 View Post
The tactic of using FEAR to take away peoples liberties and make them feel "safer" has been one that has been around for a long time.
It's a good time for this quote:


Quote:
"Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
 
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