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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
I am afraid like others you misunderstand the American system. We are not a true Democracy rather a Republic. This used to be taught in grade school but sadly isn't any more.

In a Democracy the entire country would be in fact 1 person 1 vote. This would allow anyone who received the "popular" vote to win the election. This does have the draw back of allowing states with a larger population to have the majority over the other states. Another concern was/is that a popular vote system would allow manipulation through public opininon (i.e. Russia this election for example) Hence the Electoral system. This was created to prevent these types of difficulties.

You vote in your own State. Your vote holds a higher importance to your State's internal matters. Only 1 of these internal matters is what person the Electorates should vote for. When it comes to voting for your State's representatives, Governor etc the popular vote does hold not for the Presidential vote.

If you need more information on how this works and why it was created this way check out... http://www.historycentral.com/electi...collgewhy.html
Thanks for elaborating. I understand & appreciate your point. I take a keen interest in US politics, having been a former resident. But barring the electoral college system, don't things work pretty much how they do in any other westminster style system? In UK & India for example, people vote within a particular constituency, which is typically part of an urban or rural area. As long as the political party wins a majority of these constituencies, it can get away with not winning the majority vote overall, nationwide.
 
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 12:41 PM
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I trade Forex, have done of years, most of it has been priced in by the big boys. Casual traders though are still reacting, knee jerk style, to every hint he gives. His tweets are what will potentially cause the biggest issues, as he tends to make them when it's the asian session so the liquidity is low.

I trade currencies so don't really follow stock as such. Very little has happened today.
I guess I should have included - "in the days to come" as well. I've been speaking to various Financial planners recently on this topic, and it's basically the same - they are saying the market isn't as freaked out with what he does on a daily basis any more. While the market was more volatile months back, it's now kind of expecting his shenanigans.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
I am afraid like others you misunderstand the American system. We are not a true Democracy rather a Republic. This used to be taught in grade school but sadly isn't any more.

In a Democracy the entire country would be in fact 1 person 1 vote. This would allow anyone who received the "popular" vote to win the election. This does have the draw back of allowing states with a larger population to have the majority over the other states. Another concern was/is that a popular vote system would allow manipulation through public opininon (i.e. Russia this election for example) Hence the Electoral system. This was created to prevent these types of difficulties.

You vote in your own State. Your vote holds a higher importance to your State's internal matters. Only 1 of these internal matters is what person the Electorates should vote for. When it comes to voting for your State's representatives, Governor etc the popular vote does hold not for the Presidential vote.

If you need more information on how this works and why it was created this way check out... http://www.historycentral.com/electi...collgewhy.html
I have a degree and a masters in Politics (Uk and American funnily enough) and I would have to say this. There are two forms of 'democracy', direct and representative, and the UK system is no more representative than yours. There are differing varieties within each of the two also, which is where it gets very complicated.

You have a 'presidential democracy', with the intent of stability over representation.

Our last PM, Cameron, got 32% of the popular vote, which is laughable. If we had proportional representation then UKIP would be the official opposition, whereas they have one MP out of 650.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Woomeister View Post
I have a degree and a masters in Politics (Uk and American funnily enough) and I would have to say this. There are two forms of 'democracy', direct and representative, and the UK system is no more representative than yours. There are differing varieties within each of the two also, which is where it gets very complicated.

You have a 'presidential democracy', with the intent of stability over representation.

Our last PM, Cameron, got 32% of the popular vote, which is laughable. If we had proportional representation then UKIP would be the official opposition, whereas they have one MP out of 650.
Exactly my sentiments, better articulated by your political science prowess.
 
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Old 01-20-2017, 06:25 PM
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Can't Congress vote to amend the Constitution & isn't Congress elected by a Majority of the people? If 2/3rds Majority of Congress decides that killing the other 1/3rd is legal then it will in fact be the law of the land.
A two-thirds majority in both houses of Congress is just the starting point for an amendment. After that, three-quarters of the states must ratify the amendment for it to come into effect. Amending the Constitution is a very difficult task, deliberately made so by the writers of it.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 06:49 PM
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good catch - I was remembering incorrectly as both 2/3 vs 3/4 for states
 
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 06:58 PM
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You may find this interesting/worrying, depending on your stance http://www.complex.com/life/2017/01/...te-trump-scrub
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 08:36 PM
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Ironic that people who voted Trump to power are the ones who need Obamacare the most.
 
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 09:19 PM
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Ironic that people who voted Trump to power are the ones who need Obamacare the most.
This really isn't true at all...

Quote:
While costs vary widely across states and carriers, the average national prices give some insight into just how steep Obamacare premiums and deductibles can be for the non-subsidized. A 30-year-old will pay an average of $311 a month for the lowest-level bronze plan for 2017, while a 60-year-old will pay an average of $744, according to a review by HealthPocket, which analyzes insurance plans. Both rose 21% from this year. And the average deductible on a bronze plan will top $6,000 next year for an individual and come in at nearly $12,400 for a family.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news...ble/index.html

Obamacare was designed so that those who do not need insurance (i.e. are healthy and will never use it) are required to have it and pay for it so that those who do need it and will use it will be payed for by them. It is the ultimate Straw Man

There are many theories out there from allowing insurance purchase across state lines, requiring insurance companies to sell everyone insurance as they would sell to a large corporation i.e. excepting pre-existing conditions, allowing those who can not become pregnant to not have pregnancy coverage, lower rates because of group purchase and more) There are in fact a lot of ideas that would work better and make insurance more attainable for everyone.

Hell...if you took a fraction of what Obamacare's cost as a government program. Provided each of the 330+ Million people with an interest bearing account they would be able to have insurance and never have to pay a premium or deductible out of their own pocket.
 
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2017, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post

Hell...if you took a fraction of what Obamacare's cost as a government program. Provided each of the 330+ Million people with an interest bearing account they would be able to have insurance and never have to pay a premium or deductible out of their own pocket.
Let's see what the Republicans have in store for us
 
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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2017, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
This really isn't true at all...



http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news...ble/index.html

Obamacare was designed so that those who do not need insurance (i.e. are healthy and will never use it) are required to have it and pay for it so that those who do need it and will use it will be payed for by them. It is the ultimate Straw Man

There are many theories out there from allowing insurance purchase across state lines, requiring insurance companies to sell everyone insurance as they would sell to a large corporation i.e. excepting pre-existing conditions, allowing those who can not become pregnant to not have pregnancy coverage, lower rates because of group purchase and more) There are in fact a lot of ideas that would work better and make insurance more attainable for everyone.

Hell...if you took a fraction of what Obamacare's cost as a government program. Provided each of the 330+ Million people with an interest bearing account they would be able to have insurance and never have to pay a premium or deductible out of their own pocket.
Your healthcare system was, and still is, a joke, for a so-called 'super power'. Those that can afford it should subsidise for those that can't, the same as they do in all other areas by default. The NHS in the UK is struggling, don't get me wrong, but at least nobody is asked to provide proof they can pay before they get landed with a huge bill for being kept alive. Here's the opinion of a US Doctor http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7203256.html
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2017, 02:55 AM
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US healthcare system does have its drawbacks. I have experienced first hand / second hand two incidences:

1) A few years ago a friend of mine had intense abdominal pain. Me and a couple of other guys took him to a hospital. The hospital couldn't immediately verify his health insurance, so they kept him waiting in extreme pain for 3 hours before they let him in for treatment.

2) A friend of mine died in New York City last year (RIP). He was at work, felt some dizziness & went to a nearby hospital to get it checked. Turned out they didn't accept his insurance. He felt a little better so he went home. He was cooking himself a meal in the kitchen when he again had a bout of dizziness. He fell down, hit his head on the countertop & bled out on the kitchen floor before anyone could discover what had happened to him.
 
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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This year they are going to force me to sign up for Medicare (I turn 65 in July).

Pre-Obamacare having coverage was not required but they jacked up the rates on you if you started it later that right at 65.

I saw a doctor about 15 years ago (needed an antibiotic and that needed a prescription to get it) and I expect to probably see one again in another decade or so - Obama did not originate the idea that those who are healthy subsidize those who are not.

Publicly funded education is forcing those who can afford to educate their children to subsidize the education of those who cannot afford it. Obviously a fallacy. How can we maintain an uneducated easily replaced minimum wage workforce with an attitude like that?

And in a sensible society, if you reach a point where you no longer contribute to it, shouldn't you simply go off and die alone somewhere so people don't have to watch you do it?

That was actually fun looking at it from that viewpoint. Subsistence level societies often have a tradition of the elderly taking a final spirit walk, by the way. Public education in the USA was a response to needing a more educated workforce as technology increased in the 1900s.
 
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2017, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Woomeister View Post
Your healthcare system was, and still is, a joke, for a so-called 'super power'. Those that can afford it should subsidise for those that can't, the same as they do in all other areas by default. The NHS in the UK is struggling, don't get me wrong, but at least nobody is asked to provide proof they can pay before they get landed with a huge bill for being kept alive. Here's the opinion of a US Doctor http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7203256.html
I think you missed what I was saying. I didn't say that those that couldn't afford it shouldn't be subsidized those that are forced into a program should not be subsidizing for others when they can't afford to use for themselves.

The true point to the whole statement was that if we as a country spent less assigning money to each person in an account that is money/interest bearing then everyone would have health care that cost them nothing.

I am in agreement that no one should ever be turned away for life threatening illness. Treatment first money later should always be the way.

What I was saying is that there are a lot of alternative methods available for evaluation. Things are far worse since the invention of Obamacare than they were before and viable options are fewer for everyone.
 
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Old 01-21-2017, 03:47 PM
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Treatment first money later should always be the way.
Yes I understand TechWizard, I wasn't trying to direct things at, or through you.

Having said that the above quote is worrying!

This is where some of you guys in the US think quite differently to us over the pond. Money later? So in other words treat them, then bankrupt them?

National healthcare works, and actually creates unity in many ways. There's one thing that everyone in the UK is happy to do - Pay tax and get 'free' health care at the point of need. Unfortunately we've had a procession of governments that just won't raise taxes for the NHS, so it's having difficulties in certain areas.

IVF is one of the areas that is very unfair in the UK right now. Certain postcodes will only give one course of 'treatment', where as other give 3. Our mental health care is dire and the public, me included, are crying out to pay another 0.1p on the pound in tax to pay for it. Cancer drugs are readily available in certain areas but not others due to budget constraints. But this is due to PCT's (primary care trusts) having differing age demographics. Areas that are renowned as retirement areas are obviously hit the worst.

All in all though I would much rather fall ill here than in the US. I've had physiotherapy for 6 months after being smashed into the back of in a car crash. My family see the dentist every 6 months and can see our GP when we want etc etc. No stress, no worry about stumping a fortune.
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Old 01-21-2017, 03:59 PM
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I do not want to get political. I am an American and it is time for us to focus on our serious issues. These includes jobs and our culture,
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Old 01-21-2017, 04:11 PM
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I do not want to get political. I am an American and it is time for us to focus on our serious issues. These includes jobs and our culture,
What's more important than healthcare??? The health of a nation is vital, and one could argue it's a prerequisite of what you mentioned.

Culture cannot be manufactured or set on a course i'm afraid. Cultural dilution is inevitable when you have 45% hispanic (correct me if this is wrong) and god know how many other sub divisions etc.

The UK has only 14% (rounded up) of other nationalities and yet we are spoken of as if we were over run by asians etc. It's simply not true.

This thread is in 'controversial issues' so get political if need be, we are all grown up here I believe.
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Old 01-21-2017, 08:16 PM
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The true point to the whole statement was that if we as a country spent less assigning money to each person in an account that is money/interest bearing then everyone would have health care that cost them nothing.
This is an interesting proposition you have there so I tried to work out the numbers. Obamacare is projected to cost $1.2 trillion between 2016-2025, as per the Obamacarefacts.com. That's $120 billion annually. Assuming average term deposit rates of 3% over this period, the US government will have to cough up an initial corpus of a staggering 4 trillion $. That's the size of the whole Japanese economy. If we consider savings accounts rather than term deposits, with 1% interest rates, the corpus needed would be 12 trillion $, 2/3rds the size of the US economy. At these rates, even if we considered a fraction of Obamacare costs, let's say 1/4th, still the corpus needed would be between 1-4 trillion $. Given that the government debt is already quite high, this would be very difficult for any government to pull off.
 
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:08 PM
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Given that the government debt is already quite high, this would be very difficult for any government to pull off.
The US debt problem is ridiculous. http://www.usdebtclock.org

Several years ago the world bank, fed reserve etc stated that when the debt reached 20,000,000,000,000 it will be the end of the US economy forever. the debt is untenable and people really should be more aware.

The subprime disaster of 2008 is a mere drop in the ocean in comparison and it's about time The US 'got real'.

There are other countries who are nearing a similar situation too.
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:28 PM
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The US debt problem is ridiculous. http://www.usdebtclock.org
Nice link, BTW!

Makes me wonder, with all those countries that are shown as incurring $billions of "debt" daily (with GDP decreasing/increasing), who the heck is making all the money??

Which countries are actually debt-free?
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