Pastor Ted

[jg_v7n]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6119226.stm

If people are bought up to believe that part of them is "evil" or "immoral" when it is in fact just part of being human, these people when they become adults will be unable to live genuine, open and honest lives.

This poor man, mislead and misguided all his life turned to God because he had been lead to believe that it could bring him salvation and deliver him from his "sins". Like so many religious leaders before him, a lifetime of teaching bigotry and hatred in a vain attempt to find what is not there, has finally failed him.

All the "Faith" in the world couldn't stop Pastor Ted from just being plain old Gay Ted.

When will people wake up, and start teaching compassion and forgiveness and acceptance, as part of humanity and not part of divinity? When will they realise that, blind faith in God never "saved" anyone from anything, and yet just a little faith in yourself can change the world?

[ewomack]

Agreed. After all this nonsense blows over hopefully he'll be able to go out and have some really great guilt free gay sex.

Here's to progress!!

[IslaScotts]

Originally Posted by jg_v7n

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6119226.stm

If people are bought up to believe that part of them is "evil" or "immoral" when it is in fact just part of being human, these people when they become adults will be unable to live genuine, open and honest lives.

This poor man, mislead and misguided all his life turned to God because he had been lead to believe that it could bring him salvation and deliver him from his "sins". Like so many religious leaders before him, a lifetime of teaching bigotry and hatred in a vain attempt to find what is not there, has finally failed him.

All the "Faith" in the world couldn't stop Pastor Ted from just being plain old Gay Ted.

When will people wake up, and start teaching compassion and forgiveness and acceptance, as part of humanity and not part of divinity? When will they realise that, blind faith in God never "saved" anyone from anything, and yet just a little faith in yourself can change the world?

I'm glad I am not the only one who feels that being human isn't evil, wrong, or sinful. The sins of mankind is what makes me a part of mankind. It is who I am... and I embrace myself without guilt.

[jg_v7n]

Originally Posted by IslaScotts

I'm glad I am not the only one who feels that being human isn't evil, wrong, or sinful. The sins of mankind is what makes me a part of mankind. It is who I am... and I embrace myself without guilt.

Absolutely.

The concept that Hell awaits those who live life as they deem fit, and not as dictated by ancient, long outdated codes of morality is one of the most despicable features of modern religion.

[jg_v7n]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...wmiracle07.xml

Yeah great, miracles...

"Oh don't worry little Johnny, maybe God will grant you a miracle and cure you of your terrible cancer ridden life."

"Oh Johnny, I'm sorry that God didn't love you as much as the man he cured, maybe you committed a sin, like being born Gay, now you'll have to live for eternity with hell fire and eternal damnation you faggot."

[jg_v7n]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wisrael07.xml

YAY!!! Joy to the world. All the world religions united in utter ignorant HATRED!!!

[Julie]

Not all religious people hold such hatred towards those who life "differently". I would include myself in that group.

You're entitled NOT to believe, but to bash those of us who do is as judgemental, and hateful as anything else.

[IslaScotts]

Julie I think his response was in regards to the links of the articles. To portray the ignorance of the people and/or religions cited in the article. I don't think he would try to bash you. Well, I am giving him that benefit of the doubt anyway.

[jg_v7n]

Originally Posted by Julie

Not all religious people hold such hatred towards those who life "differently". I would include myself in that group.

You're entitled NOT to believe, but to bash those of us who do is as judgemental, and hateful as anything else.

This is quite true. But at the end of the day if you choose to class yourself under the same banner, be it "Christian", "Jew", "Muslim" or whatever, then you are still a component of the process that produces these extremist views.

You may well classify yourself as a "Liberal" Christian, meaning that you don't take the bible as a literal text. In which case you pick and choose the moral codes and the stories that you agree with and those that you don't. Certainly a more forward thinking attitude towards your religion than a more conservative view.

However some may argue that in this case you do your religion no favours by doubting the complete authenticity of the holy book, and equally you do Atheism no favours by the implication of the need for a higher authority on which to base your moral standards.

I am somewhat judgmental for sure, but certainly not hateful, as I'm sure you are not. I in no way share the views of those that choose to protest against homosexuality as I'm sure that you do not.

But by definition, like it or not, you may well be part of the same religion.

I see no real practical way in which to separate Liberal from Conservative Christianity. How much of the Bible must you denounce before you become "Liberal"? Just how much of the Bible is inaccurate for a Liberal?

Do I need to separate these people from their religion in order that I may critisise them? Are they just bad people and not bad Jewish people, or bad Christian people?

Unfortunately Julie, modern religion brings criticism upon itself by a complete failure to be in anyway related to the modern world. If you are even partly under the banner, then you are part of the criticism.

I judge your religion. I certainly do hold any personal animosity towards you.

[Julie]

If you judge my religion, and my beliefs, then you are in a sense judging me. It makes you no better than some extremist judging a homosexual.

One can believe, while accepting our humanity and the sins that we all ultimately commit, without spewing hatred towards those who deviate from beliefs. No one is perfect.

Lately, you seem to be on an anti-religion crusade.

[IslaScotts]

Originally Posted by Julie

If you judge my religion, and my beliefs, then you are in a sense judging me. It makes you no better than some extremist judging a homosexual.

One can believe, while accepting our humanity and the sins that we all ultimately commit, without spewing hatred towards those who deviate from beliefs. No one is perfect.

Lately, you seem to be on an anti-religion crusade.

Isn't it more about pointing out accountability than judging. For example, my brother-in-law made a degrading racial comment to me a few months ago. And I told him flat out that I do not agree with him and that I think it is wrong to be so rude and stereotypical about a race. I was not judging him but making him acountable for his words and actions. I think people who riot, protest, harm, or prevent gay people and their rights should be held accountable.

[WillL]

I don't believe in Jesus , God , anyone.

Science , Natural Laws.

[jg_v7n]

Originally Posted by Julie

If you judge my religion, and my beliefs, then you are in a sense judging me.

Yes. If you feel that by judging your religion I am judging you, I will not disagree. However, as I said I certainly do hold any personal animosity towards you.

Originally Posted by Julie

It makes you no better than some extremist judging a homosexual.

No. Its like judging a bully.

Originally Posted by Julie

One can believe, while accepting our humanity and the sins that we all ultimately commit, without spewing hatred towards those who deviate from beliefs. No one is perfect.

This is what I'm trying to say, only my idea of what someone should aspire to be comes form a deep seated moral feeling of right and wrong. It doesn't come from a 2000 year old, vastly outdated book.

Originally Posted by Julie

Lately, you seem to be on an anti-religion crusade.

Yes. Read the articles I posted above.

Julie, I can assure you that you and I are not so different, I expect that we share many, if not most sentiments of right and wrong. What is correct and what is incorrect. Our differences stem only from where and why we hold these feelings.

I feel that by living by a sense of correctness built from some understanding solely from life in general, by instinct if you like, then my moral boundaries have no purpose, benefit or possibility of being stretched to fulfill some other goal.

While you may share those exact sentiments, by attaching yourself to a religion, you validate the possibility of extreme views. The Bible from which you gain your moderate views that closely relate to mine, undoubtedly states that homosexuality is wrong. So why do you need the bible in the first place onto which to credit these views?

Yes, I am on an anti-religion crusade. Like millions of evangelicals out there I think its time that I spread the word.

[Julie]

Funny you should use the word "evangelical", which also has a religious connotation (as well as a non-religious).

Honestly, I'm not in the mood to argue. So go on believing whatever you want to believe. I know what I believe, and I don't believe that something is wrong because a book tells me so. I have "instincts" and an idea of what is right and wrong. Although I happen to believe in a high power.

If you think that makes me stupid or whatever you think, then so be it. But know this...you are no better than me, or anyone else here.

I am done with this thread. I know where I stand, you know where you stand. Neither is likely to change or see any differently. So, adios.

[jg_v7n]

Originally Posted by Julie

Funny you should use the word "evangelical", which also has a religious connotation (as well as a non-religious).

Yes. Funny that.

Originally Posted by Julie

Honestly, I'm not in the mood to argue. So go on believing whatever you want to believe. I know what I believe, and I don't believe that something is wrong because a book tells me so. I have "instincts" and an idea of what is right and wrong. Although I happen to believe in a high power.

If you think that makes me stupid or whatever you think, then so be it. But know this...you are no better than me, or anyone else here.

Quite right, I am not, and in no way would I think this. Its just that I have chosen to criticise the injustice and hypocrisy that I see daily in the papers relating to religion. I am not to blame if you find criticism of your "chosen" religion a personal affront.

Originally Posted by Julie

I am done with this thread. I know where I stand, you know where you stand. Neither is likely to change or see any differently. So, adios.

Fair enough.

[Brian]

I enjoy how you worded that first post.

+1

[John Scott]

If people are bought up to believe that part of them is "evil" or "immoral" when it is in fact just part of being human

Humans are evil. Or rather, humans have huge potential for evil. We can either make good choices or bad. Both the good choices and the bad choices are human, but being "human" is not an excuse to make bad choices or do evil.

Murder is more human than a lot of other human activity. Homicidal rage is human. More so than studying math or giving to others. But that doesn't mean it's right.

[WillL]

who's to say what's right and wrong ?

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by WillL

who's to say what's right and wrong ?

Generally speaking, that's the job of reason and ethics.

[WillL]

Society should not decide what's right and what's wrong. Neither should the government.

All reasoning is lost.