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Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


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Old 01-07-2017, 01:52 PM
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Should barial of fetal remains be required?

A law that requires abortion clinics properly bury fetal (baby) remains is being reported in the news. Opponents complain that this is only an attempt by pro-lifers to restrict the ability of women to get abortions.

Well, this is my opinion, and everyone has a right to their own. My opinion is the pre-born baby's right to live, trumps anything else. There is no such thing as a mother's "right" to end the life of her own baby, fully born or not.

Now, as far as emergencies go, where the mother's life is in danger, I would have to agree that the doctor has to do what he has to do. But, most abortions are done out of convenience...the parents simply don't want to bother with raising the child. I can't judge though, I've had two women abort our baby, one I agreed with.
 
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LeatherFace View Post
But, most abortions are done out of convenience...the parents simply don't want to bother with raising the child. with.
Unless you can back this up, with more than just hearsay or guess work, I'm afraid a debate with you will be difficult as I deal in facts. You certainly do not know this to be true, and should not state you do in an opening statement of a potentially fraught debate.

You are also entangling two different issues, that of human rights, and abortion - two quite different things. You cannot merge the two until you fully understand human rights.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16291493

When do human rights begin? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-rights-begin/

Now, depending on your view, if you believe that an embryo/foetus has human rights then please plain who has the greater rights: the mother, or the foetus? This would be legally defined as obvious, the Mother. "Ehrlichs and Mr. Holdren conclude.. that legal scholars do not believe humans are constitutionally recognized as people until they are born."

Furthermore...

“To most biologists, an embryo (unborn child during the first two or three months of development) or a fetus is no more a complete human being than a blueprint is a building,”

Who would represent the rights of the foetus? In your opinion it would appear that an Ngo or Quango maybe would need to exist to represent all the rights of unborn foetuses. Maybe they could legally prevent mothers from drinking/smoking/drug taking too?

Using a human rights angle to try and stop abortion is not going to work as it has to be dealt with in a legal way. Legally and biologically a foetus currently isn't recognised as a 'human being' till birth has happened.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LeatherFace View Post
A law that requires abortion clinics properly bury fetal (baby) remains is being reported in the news. Opponents complain that this is only an attempt by pro-lifers to restrict the ability of women to get abortions.

Well, this is my opinion, and everyone has a right to their own. My opinion is the pre-born baby's right to live, trumps anything else. There is no such thing as a mother's "right" to end the life of her own baby, fully born or not.

Now, as far as emergencies go, where the mother's life is in danger, I would have to agree that the doctor has to do what he has to do. But, most abortions are done out of convenience...the parents simply don't want to bother with raising the child. I can't judge though, I've had two women abort our baby, one I agreed with.
Honestly, I'm against abortion. But if you;re talking about how fetuses should be buried, then I must say they should be buried with dignity. After all, they are human beings...
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Old 02-02-2017, 05:51 PM
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Honestly, I'm against abortion. But if you;re talking about how fetuses should be buried, then I must say they should be buried with dignity. After all, they are human beings...
This is the problem, legally they are not.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:03 PM
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It is a question of sentience - how much brain is there to play with - sorry to the "life begins at conception" people but a 'soul' does not interface with the hardware until there is an actual brain sufficient to interface with present. It will also depart (no longer bound) when the brain is no longer viable even if other systems and organs are maintained as biologically active.

The requirement of sentience - pretty much a matter of pattern recursion on the local level with self modification - really determines if an organism is "human" or not.
 
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:26 AM
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This is an explosive topic. So far everyone has been polite in an expressing their opinion.

Please continue to do so.




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Old 02-06-2017, 06:27 AM
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This is the problem, legally they are not.
Legal and Moral are two different concepts. Sometimes they overlap, and sometimes they don't.
 
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:04 AM
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I would further divide that into legal, moral, and ethical -- with moral being values imposed from outside while ethical is values developed internally.
 
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:16 PM
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Legal and Moral are two different concepts. Sometimes they overlap, and sometimes they don't.
What is legal and moral also differ from place to place...so maybe the word 'factually' needs using too at times.
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