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Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


View Poll Results: Are you with Abortion or against?
I am totaly with Abortion 15 24.19%
I am against it for any reason 30 48.39%
It depends on the cituation 17 27.42%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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  #361 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:06 PM
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Holy **** we're still talking about this!

I'm pro-choice but someone gave me an interesting out look:

You should at least give birth to the child so that you give another family/couple the opportunity to raise it properly. I know a couple who have 3 kids, all adopted.
 
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  #362 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2007, 04:45 PM
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the truth is this forum is dominated by men, if it was a majority of women the pole would reflect a different view, let those that bare the burden bare the choice.
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  #363 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:53 PM
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Many of the women in this community voted that they were against abortion for any reason.
 
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  #364 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Fivetide View Post
let those that bare the burden bare the choice.
I would like to, but in reality how are we supposed to do that? I mean, how do we get unborn children to vote in on online poll?
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  #365 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:28 AM
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well.. whatever reasons someone may have.. all I know is that abortion is wrong.. each unborn child has the right to live.. and be loved of course.
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  #366 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:42 AM
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I'm totally late to be jumping into this conversation, but anyway... I picked "totally for abortion" even though I'm NOT totally for abortion, I know women who've had abortions and it's a very difficult choice to make. I would never have one. But then again, it's easier for me to say that because I have good job that provides health care, and I can do it while being pregnant, and my employer will pay maternity leave, and my family would be supportive... the list goes on and on. Not every woman gets that; we put them in catch-22 situations. Adoptive parents are hesitant to pay medical expenses; laws dictate that they have very few rights if the mother changes her mind at the last minute. Our national healthcare system is shot to crap.

So I'm not for abortion, but I am for keeping abortion legal, for the following reasons:
1) I don't really think that a fertilized egg is a baby the moment an egg and sperm come together.

2) Late-term abortions make me less comfortable, but I don't think women just sit around pregnant for seven months and then up and decide they've changed their mind. I've known one woman who had a late term abortion and it was for a serious medical reason. She did NOT have time to get a judge's "permission" saying it was okay... in Kansas, with so many pro-life judges anyway, she might not have even gotten permission. She probably would have had to chose between death and jail. (there's your pro-choice!)

3) I don't want to live in a world where if I have a miscarriage, there's an investigation.

4) Lots of people think abortion should be allowed in cases of rape... how the hell would that work? Like, if the rapist won't sign the paperwork himself, does the case have to go from accusation to conviction in less than nine months for the abortion to be allowed? Does anyone seriously believe our legal system is that efficient?

I think this is a complicated issue... people want it to be about innocent unborn babies and those irresponsible whores who can't figure out birth control, but it's not really fair to break it down like that.
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  #367 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:03 AM
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1) I don't really think that a fertilized egg is a baby the moment an egg and sperm come together.
It's not a baby. It's zygote.

Dr. Hymie Gordon, the late Mayo Clinic scholar/teacher/physician, declared: “By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”

The question is not whether it is a baby, but whether it is a human being (organism).

Professor Micheline Matthews *Roth, Harvard Medical School, observes: “It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at
conception.”

Dr. Eugene Diamond, past chairman of the pediatrics department of Loyola University Medical School, Maywood, Illinois, says, “We no longer need to belabor the question of when human life begins; it begins incontrovertibly at the union of sperm and ovum."

The late European geneticist Dr. Jerome Lejeune stated, “The fetus is a human being. Genetically, he is complete.”


So, yes, it is a human life being taken.

Quote:
I don't want to live in a world where if I have a miscarriage, there's an investigation.
Nobody does. Where did you get the idea that miscarriages would lead to investigations? Do you have a source?
Quote:
Lots of people think abortion should be allowed in cases of rape... how the hell would that work? Like, if the rapist won't sign the paperwork himself, does the case have to go from accusation to conviction in less than nine months for the abortion to be allowed? Does anyone seriously believe our legal system is that efficient?
You'll have to explain to me how one woman's rape justifies the murder of another human being. The logic is not self evident.

And just FYI, in most developed nations, when I woman reports a rape, she is taken to the hospital and a rape kit is administered. The rape kit flushes out any remaining evilness, and the to date I am aware of NOT A SINGLE case of a rape victim who was treated with a rape kit becoming pregnant.
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  #368 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:51 AM
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I think it depends on the different circumstances.
 
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  #369 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fermiop View Post
I think it depends on the different circumstances.
agree with you...
not all the time abortion is totally wrong..
its a case to case basis
 
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  #370 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:06 PM
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Let's pretend for a second that we live in a place where abortion is illegal.

You know a girl on your dorm floor who gets pregnant. It's a horrible time for her, she's got no idea what do to about it, she's freaking out because she doesn't want to be pregnant but since abortion is illegal, she has no choice.

A week later, she tells everyone it's not an issue anymore, she's had a miscarriage.

I strongly suspect that someone, somewhere will suspect that she found someone to give her an illegal abortion, and she'll be accused of it, and the police will want to talk with her doctors, and they'll keep track of who those doctors are, etc etc etc. There will be statements from people who heard her say she didn't want to be pregnant.

And that's how miscarriages get investigated. And that's why, to be honest, I don't really care if life begins at conception or heartbeat or brain waves or whatever... I just think we should leave abortion alone.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:46 PM
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And that's how miscarriages get investigated.
But, for the most part, they don't.

Abortion is illegal in the US after the point of viability, and people miscarry after the point of viability all the time, and nobody investigates it.
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  #372 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:55 PM
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I am always against abortion. Doing the abortion, we are killing the kids. It was cruel.
 
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  #373 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:08 AM
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It depends on the cituation, stupid people should not be able to breed.
 
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  #374 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rob7676 View Post
It depends on the cituation, stupid people should not be able to breed.
The world's population would be decimated if we enforced that. Not to mention that the statement self-identifies with the attribute in question.
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  #375 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:20 AM
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It's a tiresome debate:

http://www.individualsovereigntist.c...ion-arguments/
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  #376 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2007, 12:58 AM
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My opinion for what its worth is that in general i am slightly uneasy with the whole idea of abortion although it depends on each situation as surely nobody could expect a woman who became pregnant as a result of being raped to automatically be willing to let the pregnancy continue.

I also think that as she carries the child it is ultimately the womans decision.
 
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:18 AM
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I also think that as she carries the child it is ultimately the womans decision.
Are you referring to the "bodily rights" position? That is, since the unborn child's life is dependent upon the mother, she therefore has the right to terminate it?
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:01 AM
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Are you referring to the "bodily rights" position? That is, since the unborn child's life is dependent upon the mother, she therefore has the right to terminate it?
I would not say she has a right to terminate just like I have no right to tell her not to terminate.

The fact that she would carry the child for 9 months should be taken into account i feel.
 
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futo View Post
I would not say she has a right to terminate just like I have no right to tell her not to terminate.
Where human life is concerned, I would not say you have the right to choose not to address it. As a society, it is not our right to equivicate on human life. It is our absolute obligation to address the issue and ensure that the rights of both the mother and the child are properly considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futo View Post

The fact that she would carry the child for 9 months should be taken into account i feel.
That, of course, must be considered. It ends up most often being a debate of the woman's rights versus the rights of the unborn child. Some debaters would like to strip the child of any rights. Not good, IMO.
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