Children's foreheads slashed in Muslim saint's name

[DharmaConsulting]

crazy, i wonder how kids and grandparents can inflict pain on babies

Children's foreheads slashed in Muslim saint's name
Story Highlights• Some Shiites believe cutting children honors a 17th-century Muslim leader
• Kids as young as one-month-old and as men as old as 100 are slashed
• Ashura marks the decapitation of their most revered Saint Imam Hussein
• Rite continues despite being banned in Lebanon
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

[G10]

So much for them abiding by the book they believe teaches love, kindness and peace

[IslaScotts]

Why would other people think this is wrong? There are many different cultures and tribes that use scarification for religious/cultural rites. Maybe they would see circumcision as barbaric? Who am I to judge someone honoring a saint with scarification?

[G10]

My statement relates to the point that it goes against the koran teachings.

If you are not sure on this, feel free to ask any Muslim or follower of it as you may think that my views may be biased

btw - I do not follow this book but am aware of it's teachings.

[IslaScotts]

What exact teaching does it go against?

[DharmaConsulting]

Originally Posted by IslaScotts

Why would other people think this is wrong? There are many different cultures and tribes that use scarification for religious/cultural rites. Maybe they would see circumcision as barbaric? Who am I to judge someone honoring a saint with scarification?

a 6 year old getting a knife to the head and seeing ppl bleed doesnt create violent thoughts?

i mean, here in the US and Canada, ppl make a fuss for a kid seeing clips of 24 or a video game

[IslaScotts]

You can't put US or Canadian standards on other cultures. What makes you or I better then them? And umm if you know history what part of their history does not involve violence? It is their culture, their belief, and their history. Once again, who am I to judge? If I was raised there, and I had generations upon generations of family being raised there how would I say I wouldn't grow up to carry on the same tradition? It is very bizarre to me, very odd.. but not so different from neck stretching, lip piercings, or the slashing of cheeks in an African tribe to young boys once they hit puberty.

You just can't compare our life of convenience, overabundance, and couch potatoes to theirs. It's not even in the same ball park... hell it isn't even the same game.

[G10]

Isla, sorry, I am not here to point out 'chapter-and-verses' of the koran as I know you can find them if you want to know.

But a little about how this came about:

They are cutting their childrens heads multiple times based on the point that Hussein refused to accept Yazid's legitimacy as their leader so Hussein waged war with Yazid, lost and his men were massacred in the battle.

Bit simplistic I know but that about sums it up without going into their disagreements and the cutting is not koran based.

[G10]

Ali Madani's screams did not save the 6-year-old from the razor blade. His father, Bilal Madani, said his son was crying because the smell of blood scared him.

Not the fact that you have just sliced your sons forehead 3 times HELLO!!!

Their reward was fruit juice and cookies

Ah well, not all bad then eh

[IslaScotts]

Originally Posted by G10

Isla, sorry, I am not here to point out 'chapter-and-verses' of the koran as I know you can find them if you want to know.

But a little about how this came about:

They are cutting their childrens heads multiple times based on the point that Hussein refused to accept Yazid's legitimacy as their leader so Hussein waged war with Yazid, lost and his men were massacred in the battle.

Bit simplistic I know but that about sums it up without going into their disagreements and the cutting is not koran based.

Oh no.. I didn't think it was koran based. You just said it goes against their teachings, you said you knew based on facts. I never once assumed you were biased.. I was just curious what lead you to think that it actually goes against their teachings is all.

[John Scott]

You can't put US or Canadian standards on other cultures.

Who is talking about US or Canadian standards? All humans, no matter where they live, should have the right to be protected from violence.

[IslaScotts]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Who is talking about US or Canadian standards? All humans, no matter where they live, should have the right to be protected from violence.

Is circumcision violent? There is a knife, there is cutting, and there is blood. And that is done (sometimes) out of religious beliefs. Yet we don't say protect the children from the violence! I am just trying to say what right do we have to say to another, your cultural traditions and beliefs go against what I find morally wrong so you must be in sync with my beliefs.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by IslaScotts

Is circumcision violent? There is a knife, there is cutting, and there is blood. And that is done (sometimes) out of religious beliefs. Yet we don't say protect the children from the violence! I am just trying to say what right do we have to say to another, your cultural traditions and beliefs go against what I find morally wrong so you must be in sync with my beliefs.

If it isn't done for medical purposes, I would say it is violent and should be illegal. You think that violence towards children is A-okay if it is done in the name of a religion? How about if I lop a kid's head off in the name of the Boogey Man?

[G10]

I must admit, I don't even like the idea of circumcision, but it is medically hygienic so on medical grounds.

Slicing a 1 month old babies head 3 times though and doing it every year. - Damn, someones going to have to be pretty good to convince me that thats ok.

[IslaScotts]

Originally Posted by John Scott

If it isn't done for medical purposes, I would say it is violent and should be illegal. You think that violence towards children is A-okay if it is done in the name of a religion? How about if I lop a kid's head off in the name of the Boogey Man?

That's killing a kid... they aren't killing kids. And umm don't you know what a brisk is? It's the Jewish ceremony when they perform circumcision, happens all the time in America.. I have been to one.

Anyway, it's called scarification... and it is a cultural and religious rite in MANY countries and tribes. You should do some research on it. What might seem like an odd tradition or even barbaric is spiritual and empowering for others. That isn't violence. Speaking in tongues is another religious experience, yet we don't try to lock them in an insane asylum because we see it as their religious experience/tradition. If a person spoke in tongues in the middle of wal-mart, falling to the floor.. convulsing with the spirit of the holy ghost you would bet your ass they would be picked up and evaluated by a shrink... doesn't mean it wasn't a religious experience, doesn't mean they would'nt be released because it IS a religious experience. It is easy to pass judgment on those things we cannot understand or feel.

[Immo]

Originally Posted by IslaScotts

Is circumcision violent? There is a knife, there is cutting, and there is blood. And that is done (sometimes) out of religious beliefs. Yet we don't say protect the children from the violence! I am just trying to say what right do we have to say to another, your cultural traditions and beliefs go against what I find morally wrong so you must be in sync with my beliefs.

I dont agree with it either, if I want to be circumsized I should have the option when I can make the decision myself.

[South]

Actually the methods for circumcision are such now that neither of my boys even cried when it was done. We didn't do it for religious reasons, we did it because there's valid evidence by respected people that it's positive for long term health and can help men avoid certain complications. I haven't personally seen any information suggesting any negative health effects from the process. You've got to reach pretty far to compare this process with slicing kids heads open with a razor then marching them down the street with open wounds.

I do partially agree that scarification as a cultural practice should be left for those cultures to decide. I've seen programs showing the young men and women of the culture displaying pride in the scarrings. I couldn't pretend to understand their culture well enough to condemn it. The only instances where I see it crossing the line is practices such as female genitalia mutilation which is most often performed for the primary purpose of sadistic control.

[John Scott]

That's killing a kid... they aren't killing kids.

So if I just slice his arm a couple times and do it in the name of some god it's ok?

And umm don't you know what a brisk is? It's the Jewish ceremony when they perform circumcision, happens all the time in America.. I have been to one.

Of course I know - where did you get the idea I didn't? Are you suggesting that if something happens in the US, then it must be ok?

and it is a cultural and religious rite in MANY countries and tribes.

And that makes it ok? So is female circumcision, but I ain't about to call that civilized. It seems you think that if something happens a lot, it must be ok. Have you seen the figgures for rape?I bet more rapes happen than kids being sliced across their foreheads, and by your logic it means that rape should be ok.

[G10]

Female circumcision, man I saw a program on that and talk about possibilities of lasting damage and the state of some of those poor girls after it.

Thats pretty damned sickening!!!

Makes the forehead slashes actually seem ok.

[IslaScotts]

Originally Posted by G10

Female circumcision, man I saw a program on that and talk about possibilities of lasting damage and the state of some of those poor girls after it.

Thats pretty damned sickening!!!

Makes the forehead slashes actually seem ok.

There are a lot of songs about that whole thing. BTW it is still happening, though I think it is occuring less often.