What do you Think of America

[rankland]

Originally Posted by Rankenstein

Over there, in the context of flying planes into the Twin Tower, is Saudi Arabia.

So when is the US going to roll into Saudi again?

I wrote this script early in the morning sorry...........I was talking so much about iraq all day that i made a mistake sue me.........

[Rankenstein]

No worries, but the fact that America went after Iraq, rather than Saudi Arabia, is proof that Bush wasn't focused on pursuing the perpetrators of 9/11. Sure, Afghanistan was an obvious and valid target. But after that, he couldn't give a crap about meting out justice, he just wanted to attack Iraq.

Why isn't the US occupying Saudi, where most of the 9/11 guys were born, lived and were trained, with tacit government blind-eye co-operation? A large percentage, maybe the majority, of the suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi. So why is America in Iraq, not Saudi?

I'd love to hear a credible answer as to why the US isn't pursuing it's enemies. And as to why Bush attacked the wrong nation.

But, really, we already know the answer.

[ScrewDriver]

9/11 looks like the big false, It was inspirated by CIA, because the russian FSB works very similiar ,they exploded two apartament buildings with peoples inside to get point start a second war in Checnia

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by ScrewDriver

9/11 looks like the big false, It was inspirated by CIA, because the russian FSB works very similiar ,they exploded two apartament buildings with peoples inside to get point start a second war in Checnia

Maybe you think; The USA would never do that?!

When you want to know what America/CIA is capable of, do some research on Italy/GLADIO and read how they bombed schoolbusses with children and blaimed it on "extreme left" to influence Italian politics only a few years ago.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by ScrewDriver

9/11 looks like the big false, It was inspirated by CIA, because the russian FSB works very similiar ,they exploded two apartament buildings with peoples inside to get point start a second war in Checnia

Is that supposed to be proof? If the FSB did something, then it logically follows that the CIA must have done 9/11?

The sorry fact is, there is massive proof that Al Qaeda hijacked the planes and crashed them into the towers, as both Al Qaeda and the US gov't claims.

[John Scott]

Italy/GLADIO and read how they bombed schoolbusses with children and blaimed it on "extreme left" to influence Italian politics only a few years ago.

Credible source?

[G10]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Maybe you think; The USA would never do that?!

When you want to know what America/CIA is capable of, do some research on Italy/GLADIO and read how they bombed schoolbusses with children and blaimed it on "extreme left" to influence Italian politics only a few years ago.

I have read that also but a credible source may be a difficult thing to find as we are talking the CIA bombing school buses and hardly anyone is going to risk pissing them off on such an issue. The site would probably be shut down and the people would be silenced - Accidentally of course

I'll see what I can dig up on this one dude.

[John Scott]

I have read that also but a credible source may be a difficult thing to find as we are talking the CIA bombing school buses and hardly anyone is going to risk pissing them off on such an issue. The site would probably be shut down and the people would be silenced - Accidentally of course

Of course, because the CIA has shut down all of those websites that accuse the CIA of masterminding 9.11?

[G10]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Of course, because the CIA has shut down all of those websites that accuse the CIA of masterminding 9.11?

I don't personally believe they did 9/11 but I do believe they're big enough and powerful enough to silence loose tongues (websites/media control) if they did carry out anything bad.

I'm sure an organisation as powerful as they can pull some serious strings if they wanted to.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Credible source?

The most credible source is the Italian Government and court documents. It's all in the public record because there was a huge scandal about it and everything has been brought into the open, in Italian parliament there have been days of discussions on this issue and numerous witnesses have been heard and secret service people who were involved.

Best is to see this video, it gives many details...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...56773650110959

Or you could do some real digging:

European Union

GLADIO - resolution of the European Parliament
European Parliament - 22.11.90
joint resolution replacing B3-2021, 2058, 2068, 2078 and 2087/90
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...cords&row_id=4

Daniele Ganser / Research

NATO's secret armies linked to terrorism? by Daniele Ganser
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/GAN412A.html

Terrorism in Western Europe: An Approach to NATO's Secret Stay-Behind Armies
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/documents...ern_Europe.pdf

"Die Geheimarmeen der NATO", Neue Zürcher Zeitung (15 December 2004)
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/news/Medi...gladio_nzz.pdf

Parallel History Project on NATO and the Warsaw Pact
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/documents...chronology.htm
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/collections/coll_gladio.htm

In Nato-Geheimarmee dienten ehemalige SS-Leute
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/documents...t_14_04_05.pdf

Various

The Puzzling Story of NATO's Secret Armies During the Cold War: Just What Were They Up to?
http://hnn.us/articles/12253.html

Secret Warfare: Operation Gladio and NATO's Stay-Behind Armies
http://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/secre...ind_armies.htm

Articles on NATO's Secret Cells Called Gladio
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/gladio.html

The Madrid bombings: The return of Operation Gladio ?
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/03/286843.html

Operation Gladio
http://users.westnet.gr/~cgian/gladio.htm

Gladio oder die Rache Moros
http://zoom.mediaweb.at/zoom_4596/gladio.html
http://zoom.mediaweb.at/rgeheim.html#gladio

The Gladio File: did fear of communism throw West into the arms of terrorists?
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres..._5dec1990.html

Synarchism In Europe- Operation Gladio and NATOs Stay-Behind Armies
http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/capta...nc/gladio.html

Gladio Bibliography
http://users.skynet.be/terrorism/html/italy_gladio.htm

ADN Kronos story: Phoney anti-terrorist police unmasked
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.ph...82843152&par=0

WikiPedia: Project Gladio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladio

UK Gladio

How MI6 and SAS joined in
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres..._5dec1990.html

UK trained secret Swiss force
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres...20sep1991.html

UK Parliamentary question on Gladio Networks: ‘Mr. Flynn : To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what is his policy on the public disclosure of information on the activities of and United Kingdom support for Operation Gladio since its inception. Mr. Archie Hamilton : It has been the policy of successive Governments not to comment on matters of this nature. This remains the policy.’
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...rittens-8.html

Italy Gladio

Italy probes 'parallel police'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4640247.stm

Breaking: Italian fascist spy network possibly linked to US intelligence
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/1/134912/3377

Secret Italian unit trained in Britain
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres...17nov1990.html

Italian report on GLADIO
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=11640

Puppet Masters: The political use of terrorism in Italy
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=11509

US Supported 'anti-left' terrorism in Italy
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres...24jun2000.html

Secret agents, freemasons, fascists... and a top-level campaign of political 'destabilisation'
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres..._5dec1990.html

Gladio is still opening wounds
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres..._1dec1990.html

‘Three jailed for 1969 Milan bomb’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...213990,00.html

‘Paolo Emilio Taviani’ ‘…was among the founders of the Gladio stay-behind network…’ http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...207688,00.html

‘Terrorists 'helped by CIA' to stop rise of left in Italy’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...158945,00.html

‘US supported anti-left terror in Italy'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...033098,00.html

‘Bomb trial may call Bush Sr’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...963717,00.html

‘Andreotti cleared for second time’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...917546,00.html

‘Andreotti's acquittal puts Italy's supergrass system in the dock’ http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...906104,00.html

‘Andreotti walks free as court clears him of murder plot’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...905627,00.html

‘Professor wins retrial for killing of police chief’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...895325,00.html

‘Infiltrators blamed for murder of Italian PM’ – ‘Spies working for the Italian secret services who infiltrated the Red Brigades were the masterminds behind the kidnapping and murder of the former prime minister Aldo Moro in 1978, according to one of the group's founders.’ http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...852325,00.html

Is the Reichstag Burning? - Sanguineti’s immediate response to the 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing - ‘THE BOMB IN MILAN EXPLODED AGAINST THE PROLETARIAT, it was intended to wound the least radicalized categories in order to ally them with power, and to tighten the ranks of the bourgeoisie for the witch hunt…’ http://www.notbored.org/reichstag.html

Prefaces to Gianfranco Sanguinetti’s On Terrorism and the State (unfortunately, full text not available on-line. Available in English translation from: B.M.Chronos, London, WC1V 6XX.):
-1979 Italian Edition - http://www.notbored.org/italian-preface.html
-1980 French Edition - http://www.notbored.org/french-preface.html

Sanguinetti archive - http://www.notbored.org/sanguinetti.html

Autonomist intellectual Tony Negri’s reflections on the period (‘Reviewing the Experience of Italy in the 1970’s’) http://www.en.monde-diplomatique.fr/1998/09/11negri …and a critique http://www.notbored.org/negri.html

‘Fascism and the Establishment: Italy – the Strategy of Tension’ http://struggle.ws/freeearth/fe3_italy.html

WikiPedia: Department of Anti-terrorism Strategic Studies (DSSA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departm...ategic_Studies

«Polizia parallela», due arresti
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/C.../polizia.shtml

Terrorismo, scoperta polizia "segreta"
coinvolti agenti ed ex carabinieri
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/g/sezi.../polipala.html

Dssa, tutti i segreti sul sito
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/g/sezi...dssa/dssa.html

Scoperta "Gladio" antiterrorismo, arrestati i capi: sono due neofascisti
http://www.uonna.it/gladio-nuova.htm

Dutch Gladio

Gladio: History in Holland
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=11382

Holland: `GLADIO' dismantled
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=16938

The Dutch cold-war Stay-Behind Organisation (DUTCH)
Department of Education, Culture and Science
http://www.minocw.nl/brief2k/2005/doc/34268a.pdf

Belgian Gladio

Belgian GLADIO
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...ds&row_id=7649

Belgian Parliamentary Commission Enquiry into GLADIO
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...ds&row_id=8508

Belgium: GLADIO enquiries
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=14989

BELGIUM: Police chief link
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=19046

Founder of Belgian GLADIO Dies
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=19094

BELGIUM: spy network disclosure
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=19129

BELGIUM: "Nijvel Gang" enquiry blocked
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=19156

BELGIUM: Prosecutors want 2 year sentence
http://www.poptel.org.uk/cgi-bin/dbs...s&row_id=19305

French Gladio

Gladio network also operated in France
http://www.cambridgeclarion.org/pres...14nov1990.html

Turkish Gladio / Special Warfare Department

United States and NATO inspired 'psychological warfare operations' against the 'Kurdish communist threat' in Turkey
http://www.variant.randomstate.org/1...Fernandes.html

Turkey: Trapped in a web of Covert Killers
http://mediafilter.org/CAQ/caq61/CAQ61turkey.html

Turkey's Killing Machine: The Contra-Guerrilla Force
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/017.html

The Last Cold Warriors
http://www.monitor.net/monitor/9703b/turkeycia.html

Turkey's Terrorists: a CIA Legacy Lives On
http://www.totse.com/en/politics/ter.../ciaturkt.html

Turkish Spy Scandals Shed New Light on 1981 Papal Murder Attempt
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0514-08.htm

The CIA in Kurdistan
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec96kurdi.htm

Funny thing is that when you search at the US government website for gladio they have a page where they try to "prove" that it's all disinformation by the Russians.

[G10]

Some there I haven't come across before Ferre, nice one dude

btw - I remember watching a comedy once where every time the USA did something bad, they blamed it on the Communists or Communist sympathizers - just tickled me

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by G10

Some there I haven't come across before Ferre, nice one dude

btw - I remember watching a comedy once where every time the USA did something bad, they blamed it on the Communists or Communist sympathizers - just tickled me

LOL. That's like the reverse of what is happening now. Anything bad happens and they blame in on the US. LOL.

And I am really interested in news concerning the recent bombing of school children in buses by the CIA. Any chance you are going to give me some links on that?

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

And I am really interested in news concerning the recent bombing of school children in buses by the CIA. Any chance you are going to give me some links on that?

I DID THAT John. If you had taken the effort to actually read about Gladio/CIA, you will find that they Bombed school busses in Italy and when I say "only a few years ago" It IS only a few years ago, this happened in my lifetime and and I can remember it very well.

I'm pretty sure this was NOT mainstream news in America when it all blew up in their faces, but I doubt that the fact that the CIA at present times is involved in another big scandal in Italy, the kidnapping of Italian citizens and torturing them in secret prisons and that 26 CIA agents are wanted by the Italian court to be trialed for that is in the news in America either, while in Europe it's been all over the news.

See:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle2631542.ece

I could make a very extensive list with terrorist activities all over the world funded by the USA/CIA during the past decades untill this very day, all meant to bend policies their way in the countries they target, to name one, remember Oliver North?


The American government funded the contras in Niquaragua, a terrorist organisation that attempted to distabilize the democratically shosen government by killing randomly entire villages, this also is documented very well, they funded this with drugs money, because they are also known to be huge drug dealers.

Want some links to that? here ya go;
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cia+drugs

Now tell me John. Why is it so difficult for you to realize that the USA has been caught redhanded so many times that it is not at all unthinkable that the USA could use terror attacks on civillians to further their political agenda?

[John Scott]

I DID THAT John.

Where? Am I blind? Where are the links to the credible sources showing that the CIA recently blew up buses of school children. One link please, not asking for your Mein Kampf.

Now tell me John. Why is it so difficult for you to realize that the USA has been caught redhanded so many times that it is not at all unthinkable that the USA could use terror attacks on civillians to further their political agenda?

It's kind of hard to even address the issue when you refuse to give me a link showing as much. And of course your credibility is not exactly supercharged after all your years of claiming that the CIA engineered 9/11, despite tons of evidence to the contrary.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

And of course your credibility is not exactly supercharged after all your years of claiming that the CIA engineered 9/11, despite tons of evidence to the contrary.

Bull**** dude, I NEVER stated that anywhere in my life.

What I do say is that I think there is enough circomstantual evidence that the official story has flaws and that this is enough justification for a (new) investigation into many of the unsolved questions, and information that has surfaced after the event.

I NEVER stated that the CIA did it. All I say is that there should be an investigation into WHO did it, because untill today, NO ONE KNOWS. Dispite a fake osame video, which is not even used by the US government anymore because of its embarracement.

Now, you didn't find that the CIA/Gladio blew up schoolbusses in the Gladio project and blamed it on "extreme left" you need to do some reading. I provided all the links. It's up to you to do the reading, I cannot do that for you.

[mauiman]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Wow, such nonsense. Such blatant disregard for history and well known facts.

Some of the things listed are actually true, but they're just things taken completely out of context. It's pure AlJazeera BS propaganda. He's bought into it hook, line and sinker.

The reason so many people claim to hate the U.S. has far less to do with anything we as a country have done then the propaganda they've been listening to reading and watching. Of course that's just my opinion and I don't want to have to spend hours debating each point over and over. I know much of what's being said out there and I know the flip side of each argument. Doubtful we'd ever agree to meet in the middle.

The U.S. has made some mistakes and we do tend to slam down the hammer too hard when we slam it, killing a lot of innocents along with our enemies. Definitely not good for our reputation and not very effective in today's war imo. But, the cowards who deliberately torture and kill innocents make it a practice to hide among civilians and in places of worship in between their acts of complete barbarism. They're the ones who should have much of this hate directed at them not the U.S.. But, the liberal media across the world has given them a free pass either out of fear and ignorance.

As soon as the real terrorists learn how to control their anger and resist being brainwashed we'll go back to basically minding our own business and stop "terrorizing" "everyone".

[ScrewDriver]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Is that supposed to be proof? If the FSB did something, then it logically follows that the CIA must have done 9/11?

The sorry fact is, there is massive proof that Al Qaeda hijacked the planes and crashed them into the towers, as both Al Qaeda and the US gov't claims.

By The way the creator of Al Qaeda - Osama Bin Laden has been trained by CIA in a war with communists at Afganistan, so he is still the good friend of CIA because there is no ex agents, only the dead ones like Basajev and Litvinenko, but im not sure if you have heard about thems

[John Scott]

By The way the creator of Al Qaeda - Osama Bin Laden has been trained by CIA in a war with communists at Afganistan, so he is still the good friend of CIA

LOL! You were doing ok up to the part where you said " so he is still the good friend of CIA".

That's like saying, John Scott was married to his wife for 10 years so he is a good friend". No logical conclusion there, eh? You know what logic is? Evidently not. Suffice it to say, the fact that he was a friend doesn't mean he still is one.

If you were intelligent, it might occur to you that the USA is invading Muslim land, hunting Osama and his friends, killing his friends, and making life unpleasant for him. So, yeah, logic says that there is no friendship there.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

The sorry fact is, there is massive proof that Al Qaeda hijacked the planes and crashed them into the towers, as both Al Qaeda and the US gov't claims.

Show me that 'proof' from creditable sources John. The whole world is waiting for the proof since the day the US government claimed this to be true. All we got so far is fake videos, lies and silence.

I do not say elCIAda didn't do it, I just want to see some of that proof finally.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Show me that 'proof' from creditable sources John. The whole world is waiting for the proof since the day the US government claimed this to be true. All we got so far is fake videos, lies and silence.

I do not say elCIAda didn't do it, I just want to see some of that proof finally.

Sorry you didn't see video of the planes crashing, or of the funerals, or hear tapes of hijacked passengers cell phone conversations, or see the results of the investigations showing exactly who the hijackers were. If only you had the slightest inclination to know the truth, you could, but as long as you balk at the idea, there is no hope for you.