What's your definition of "God"?

[John Scott]

Dude, you miss the point. I don't care where those people have gained the assumption that Saddam had something to do with 9/11, fact is that something made them believe that it's true.

The fact that Saddam was an Arab, perhaps? I don't know any news sources that went around telling people that Saddam was involved in 9-11.

And the point you were trying to make was a different one. You stated:

The majority of Americans read the news, but still more than 60% BELIEVES that Saddam was involved with 9/11

The suggested point was that people believe falsehoods in spite of readily available evidence to the contrary.

And to that point, people believe a lot of different things, despite evidence to the contrary. The 9-11 conspiracy theorists are one such group. Frankly, somebody else's belief in something isn't reason enough for me to believe.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

The fact that Saddam was an Arab, perhaps? I don't know any news sources that went around telling people that Saddam was involved in 9-11.

Maybe because YOU don't watch the news?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...oll-iraq_x.htm

People tend to believe what they are told by those they regard as authority. (parents, presidents, priests)


According to the news article, Bush and members of his administration told the nation that Saddam was linked to 9/11

The belief in the connection persists even though there has been no proof of a link between the two.
President Bush and members of his administration suggested a link between the two in the months before the war in Iraq.

And according to this news article, in 2005, a republican congressman still told CNN that Saddam was involved;

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/29/hayes.911/

Originally Posted by John Scott

And the point you were trying to make was a different one. You stated:



The suggested point was that people believe falsehoods in spite of readily available evidence to the contrary.

Yes, indeed. But in my view, to believe in something despite any evidence of the existance of the things one believes in is just as weird.

Originally Posted by John Scott

Frankly, somebody else's belief in something isn't reason enough for me to believe.

Really? I think you are only selective to what you choose to believe. I doubt that you would believe in god if no one else did.

I also believe that when you (or anyone else for that matter) had been born out of muslim parents in a muslim country you would be a muslim, as with the majority of people. Most people did not choose what they believe in, they have been spoonfed by their parents and social invironment and believed allready before their brains were developed enough to question it.

Not really "choice" now is it?

Of all baptised people in our western society, how much percentage of them do you think was baptised on their own request as adults? Do you have any idea? And how much percentage of them was baptised as a baby?

[John Scott]

According to the news article, Bush and members of his administration told the nation that Saddam was linked to 9/11

No, they did not tell the nation there was a link. They suggested there may be a link.

Yes, indeed. But in my view, to believe in something despite any evidence of the existance of the things one believes in is just as weird.

You believe things without proof. We all do.

I also believe that when you (or anyone else for that matter) had been born out of muslim parents in a muslim country you would be a muslim, as with the majority of people.

So you believe just what you were taught as a child? You didn't make any choices, you never had any original insights or thoughts?

Or are you saying that you are an intelligent person, but all Muslims are stupid morons who have no choice but to believe what they were told as children?

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

No, they did not tell the nation there was a link. They suggested there may be a link.

Proves my point, people only need a hint to massivly start believing stuff that's not there.

Originally Posted by John Scott

You believe things without proof. We all do.

Not that I'm aware off. and certainly not matters of such importance as imaginary friends.

Originally Posted by John Scott

So you believe just what you were taught as a child? You didn't make any choices, you never had any original insights or thoughts?

I only believe what I know to be real, and during my upbringing that's what I was tought to do, my parents told me I was too young when I asked them why I did not have a religion like the other kids, they told me to do some research on religions as an adult before making any choices, but they gave me the advice never to trust any religion that tells you 'something bad can happen to you' when you don't join them.

I still find that to be solid advice.

Originally Posted by John Scott

Or are you saying that you are an intelligent person, but all Muslims are stupid morons who have no choice but to believe what they were told as children?

My intelligence has nothing to do with other people John, and specially not with muslims, what I do say is that most muslims are muslims because they don't know any better, their parents, grandparents, friends, the whole invironment they grew up in automatically made them muslims.

For most muslims or christians the question is not if they want to become members of that faith children have little choice, most of them don't even question whether they want to stay muslims or christians as adults.


Some do, some abandon their faith, and in both mulsim and christian cultures this often leads to frictions with their community and sometimes even with their family. These are facts.

[sportsnut424]

so hows the weather there guys? LOL

[watley]

Well, looks like we've wrapped up some of the core philosophical questions of the universe, and it only took five dozen posts.

*dusts hands*

Shall we have a go at curing cancer next?

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by John Scott

So you believe just what you were taught as a child? You didn't make any choices, you never had any original insights or thoughts?

Originally Posted by Ferre

I only believe what I know to be real, and during my upbringing that's what I was tought to do, my parents told me I was too young when I asked them why I did not have a religion like the other kids, they told me to do some research on religions as an adult before making any choices, but they gave me the advice never to trust any religion that tells you 'something bad can happen to you' when you don't join them.

You are limiting your response to religion? I did not limit my question to religion. I asked whether you believe everything you were taught as child, or do you make up your own mind? Are people able to make choices?

Are you able to make choices or are you simply parroting what your parents taught you?

Originally Posted by Ferre

For most muslims or christians the question is not if they want to become members of that faith children have little choice, most of them don't even question whether they want to stay muslims or christians as adults.

Where do you gt this crap? Seriously, I want to be introduced to the person who did not question the teachings of his childhood as an adult.

[LiamSwan]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Where do you gt this crap? Seriously, I want to be introduced to the person who did not question the teachings of his childhood as an adult.

You have obviously been replying to him throughout this thread.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

You are limiting your response to religion? I did not limit my question to religion. I asked whether you believe everything you were taught as child, or do you make up your own mind? Are people able to make choices?

John, as we were talking about religion, I answered you in that context, but when you really want to know, I do not take anything for granted, not even what my parents told me, everything I have to decide is decided by me, and only me, of course I take al the information I have into account before I make any choices, and information from trusted sources carry more weight than other sources. having said that, I do not find people who believe that myths are reality to be very credible, and my parents are not that kind of people either, both my parents are well educated people and, as all my family are busyness owners, independent from state, church or other organisations that tend to influence people's decision making.

Now about your question if other people are able to make choices. Sure they are.

Now answer me this John. Are babies able to make rational choices about religion?

When babies can choose whether they want to be baptized into a religion or not, I rest my case. If not, than most people do not have a religion by choice, but due to their parents, environment, etc.

Just trying to get things factually clear here. fact is that most people are introduced into their religion without making that choice themselves.

Of course, they have the choice whether they want to STAY in their religion, but before I answer that question I want you to look up the definition of "comfort zone" in psychiatry, you will find that this sounds more easy than it actually is. Specially for people who are conditioned to fear to go a bad place like hell.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

I do not take anything for granted, not even what my parents told me, everything I have to decide is decided by me, and only me, of course I take al the information I have into account before I make any choices, and information from trusted sources carry more weight than other sources

You might want to assume that a large part of humanity conducts itself in this manner.

Originally Posted by Ferre

fact is that most people are introduced into their religion without making that choice themselves

And they have the ability and most likely the inclination to re-evaluate their beliefs thousands of times in the course of their lives.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by John Scott

And they have the ability and most likely the inclination to re-evaluate their beliefs thousands of times in the course of their lives.

Looking at your above statement, I take it that you are not at all familiar with the term: Comfort Zone or know the efects of conditioning on the human psyche.

Of course, they have the choice whether they want to STAY in their religion, but before I answer that question I want you to look up the definition of "comfort zone" in psychiatry, you will find that this sounds more easy than it actually is. Specially for people who are conditioned to fear to go a bad place like hell.

[ewomack]

The documentary "Jesus Camp" shows a good number of kids who don't look like they have a choice to follow evangelicalism. It seems to have become their unquestioned reality. I also have relatives who didn't have a choice. They had to follow along or face serious consequences. They home school and base their entire lives on what they call "the truth." Not all, or even the majority of, religious families work this way, but they definitely exist.

[G10]

Certain religious beliefs can lead to a narrowing of the mind but then again, certain ones can lead to a open minded attitude.

Reading through this thread, you call people names "gullible" etc and then when they say that they feel sorry for you, you go into one. - You state your opinion of them and they state their opinion of what you have said.

Are you really telling me that your comments aren't said to get a reaction so that you can use it to prove your point. That is why I won't rise to the bait

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by ewomack

The documentary "Jesus Camp" shows a good number of kids who don't look like they have a choice to follow evangelicalism.

What makes you think they have no choice?

Originally Posted by ewomack

I also have relatives who didn't have a choice. They had to follow along or face serious consequences.

Even when there are consequences, people still have a choice. What were those "serious consequences"?

[mvandemar]

Originally Posted by superboysahil

Hi everybody,
I just wanna ask
Wats ur defination of god?

Dude... can't you just Google it and find out already...?

I'm with chicgeek btw... spellcheckers are free and easy to use. Comes built in with the Google Toolbar even.

Originally Posted by John Scott

Even when there are consequences, people still have a choice.

You ever take philosophy John?

-Michael

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Looking at your above statement, I take it that you are not at all familiar with the term: Comfort Zone or know the efects of conditioning on the human psyche.

Ferre, it's of course expected that you would try to invoke such terms in this discussion, but the fact is that people question their beliefs all the time.

Condistioning of the psyche, eh? You don't buy that crap do you?

You would like us to believe that you, and you alone, are capable of introspection, and the rest of the world is too "afraid" to evaluate its own beliefs for "conditioning" that such introspection would send them to hell.

News flash: Nobody's afraid of hell. According to an Iraqi friend of mine, most Iraqis eat pork. Before the invasion they also watched Bay Watch on satellite TV. They fornicate and commit adultery and every other sin in the book, all the while believing in Allah.

Same goes for Christians. They fornicate. They commit adultery. They divorce. They lust after the flesh. They covet the possessions of others. And according to your philosophy, they are all scared too damn ****less to be able to even question their beliefs. You're preaching a lie. If Christian and Muslims are not afraid to sin, then they sure as hell aren't afraid to question their own beliefs.

[SeLFiE_12]

GOD is our creator and our savior. his actually our Everything...

[chicgeek]

*secretly repaired the title so it wouldn't haunt her nightmares*

[watley]

Can God microwave a burrito so hot even He couldn't handle it?

[StrongInTheArm]

Originally Posted by watley

Can God microwave a burrito so hot even He couldn't handle it?

Me thinks you are playing Frogger on the superhighway, take care the juggernauts ain't stopping for anything.

More to the point if he wanted a burrito would he need a microwave?