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  #141  
Old 08-01-2007, 10:09 PM
droplister droplister is offline
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God = An idea spoiled/abused by religion
 
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  #142  
Old 08-01-2007, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droplister View Post
God = An idea spoiled/abused by religion
I would say that this is almost as accurate as you can have.

God = Used as a scapegoat and spoiled by greedy religions. I wouldn't call him an idea but thats my personal thoughts though.
 
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  #143  
Old 08-02-2007, 03:38 AM
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Ferre Ferre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
You're running a double standard Ferre. You say....



Then say....



In the first statement you're speaking of what you don't know. I have experienced Him as have millions upon millions of others. You admit yourself in the second statement that someone without the experience cannot make judgments about whether there is an experience or what it includes without going there. If you've never experienced what I have how can you assume to deny or confirm anything about it?
[/color]

South bro, You mix two separate things I said and connect them, which isn't correct. I do not run a double standard, I just have a religious affiliation which can not be compared to the Abrahamic based believe system(s). The religion I am affiliated with does not accept children for example, one must be a legal adult to be able to join. The religion I am affiliated with does not worship deities and does not believe that the universe was designed by a supreme being.

Most people are not familiar with religions which are shamanic based and many of those who do not understand, ridicule our practises. Most of the members of the religion I am affiliated with live in countries where they are persecuted for their practises, jailed and their possessions taken away, governments even take their children from them.

All this persecution was initiated, and is still enforced by "good christian people". Needless to say that we have difficulties respecting them, they are actively making our lives miserable since centuries already and it goes on until this very day.

For the members of my religion, the inquisition never ended, it just has another name, we are now subject of the 'war on drugs' which is in fact a war on our culture. Many of the so called ilegal drugs are religious saraments for non christian cultures, but it were christians who made those laws.

On a side note; When the alcohol prohibition was designed (Volstead act) the new law had an exception for he Christian churches:
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/...tead_act.shtml
Quote:
Liquor. . . . for nonbeverage purposes and wine for sacramental purposes may be manufactured, purchased. sold, bartered, transported, imported, exported, delivered furnished and possessed
You see, they would not prohibit their own sacrament, but they had no problem at all prohibiting the sacrament of millions of non-christian people all around the world.

When the drugs laws were made, there was no such thing as an exception for religous use, although it was VERY WELL KNOWN that many of the plants they made illegal were used in religious settings since the dawn of time by many cultures, and those cultures still did that when those laws were made.


The first statement you refer to was about experiencing god, the second was not a statement, but part of a question and specifically regarding the use of entheogens.

Now as you state you did have experienced god, HOW did god manifest its existence to you?

Last edited by Ferre; 08-02-2007 at 03:42 AM.
 
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  #144  
Old 10-18-2007, 07:51 AM
cEejay_01 cEejay_01 is offline
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as simple as this:

God is my life....
 
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  #145  
Old 10-18-2007, 08:26 AM
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Rankenstein Rankenstein is offline
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There is no God as far as I can tell. However, if there were I would have to define 'him' as 'everything' - 'the totality'. If there's more than one universe, include that as well.

If I had to define God right now, I'd say 'imaginary friend'. One one level I know there is no God - however, on another level I know that being wrong is a privilege extendable to everyone.
 
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  #146  
Old 10-18-2007, 12:51 PM
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Nice one Potchie, I will agree with sportsnut424, God is our creator.



Quote:
Originally Posted by potchie View Post
Lead me Lord, lead me by the hand

And make me face the rising sun

Comfort me through all the pain

That life may bring

There's no other hope

That I can lean upon

Lead me Lord

Lead me all my life

Walk by me, walk by me across

The lonely road that I may face

Take my arms and let your hadn

Show me the way

Show the way to live inside your heart

All my days, all my life

Refrain:

You are my light

You're the lamb upon my feet

All the time my Lord

I need You there

You are my light

I (just) cannot live alone

Let me stay

By Your guiding love

All through my life

Lead me Lord

Lead me Lord

Even though at times

I'd rather go alone my way

Help me take the right direction

Take Your road

Lead me Lord

And never leave my side

All my days

All my life

You are my light

You're the lamb upon my feet

All the time my Lord

I need You there

You are my light

I (just) cannot live alone

Let me stay

By Your guiding love

All through my life

All through my days

Lead me, O Lord

Lead me Lord
 
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  #147  
Old 10-18-2007, 11:48 PM
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bytech bytech is offline
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When you understand why you're an atheist towards other gods, you'll understand why I'm an atheist towards yours.

To say 'Surely, we don't know and should reserve judgment - agnosticism is the only reasonable stance' is to suggest all unknowns are equally likely. We cannot disprove the celestial teapot orbiting earth - too tiny to be seen with any telescope... does that mean we should all be celestial teapot agnostics? Can we _really_ disprove Thor or Zeus, and if not, is the reasonable stance to be Zeus and Thor agnostics?

Am I an atheist because 'it's easy'? Ha! If I do a wrong, I don't have a priest to forgive my sins, so really, it's all on my shoulders. It's the religious with their repentance that have it easy if you ask me.

And if you think morality comes from the bible, ask yourself how the hell anyone ever made it to the mount in the first place, if they thought killing, raping, and pillaging was all kosher, for there was no commandments to tell us otherwise.

And my fav of all, should I be wrong:

"In the unlikely event of losing Pascal's Wager, I intend to saunter in to Judgment Day with a bookshelf full of grievances, a flaming sword of my own devising, and a serious attitude problem."

Last edited by bytech; 10-18-2007 at 11:58 PM.
 
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  #148  
Old 10-18-2007, 11:57 PM
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bytech bytech is offline
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Quote:
BTW - Anyone here up to date on the fact that string theory currently puts us at having 11 dimensions? Or know anything about the guy who is trying to prove retro causality?
Have you seen Elegant Universe? Mostly an intro to string theory, very interesting. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
 
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  #149  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superboysahil View Post
What's your definition of "God"? ...
A power greater than myself.
 
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  #150  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bytech View Post
Have you seen Elegant Universe? Mostly an intro to string theory, very interesting. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
I believe I did catch that. I remember that the theory seemed unlikely to me. I'll need to watch it several times more though.
 
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  #151  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:18 AM
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zeruel zeruel is offline
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for me, God is my strength when I'm weak...
 
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  #152  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atom View Post
I believe I did catch that. I remember that the theory seemed unlikely to me. I'll need to watch it several times more though.
Definitely there still are - shall we call them - 'kinks' to string theory.
 
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  #153  
Old 10-19-2007, 01:08 AM
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Read the book on which the series was based. Much better.
 
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  #154  
Old 10-19-2007, 01:27 AM
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I read and absorb too slowly for book reading I think .. I never liked it. I'll have to get the video. Speaking of absorption, several years back on PBS was aired a special on Einstein's E=MC2, and I had to record it and watch it about a dozen times before I really could fathom it.
 
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  #155  
Old 10-19-2007, 01:31 AM
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mabel01 mabel01 is offline
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God is my shelter..
 
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  #156  
Old 10-19-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bytech View Post
We cannot disprove the celestial teapot orbiting earth - too tiny to be seen with any telescope... does that mean we should all be celestial teapot agnostics?
Actually, yes. It is the intelligent thing to do. Is there a teapot orbiting earth? I don't know. You don't either. Why are you uncomfortable with not knowing? Why do you choose to state a lie - that you know God doesn't exist- instead of stating the truth - that you do not know?

There are millions of things I don't know. Do you have a car? I don't know, but if I were an atheist I guess I'd have to say that you don't have a car. The stupidity of atheism is so profound as to be beyond description.

In all things, agnosticism. If you don't know, you don't know. It's a very insecure person who is uncomfortable with that fact to the point that he denies it.

Is there intelligent life on other planets? I don't know. Do my children love me as much as I love them? Don't know.

There are millions of questions, and the honest answer is often "I DO NOT KNOW".
 
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  #157  
Old 10-19-2007, 11:37 AM
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D3n!ss3_gUrL D3n!ss3_gUrL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
There are millions of questions, and the honest answer is often "I DO NOT KNOW".
So it's more like being SKEPTICAL, isn't it?

Skeptics don't believe in God neither the creation of the universe. (I'd stop from here.)

For me, God is my strength and my invisible friend. Funny to some but yes he is. I am a Christian, nobody will and should question that. I am living with God beside me and will die firmly believing in Him.
 
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  #158  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:32 PM
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Here's an interesting fact: there are many thousands of genuine atheists in 12 step programs (such as AA/NA) who are firmly convinced that the 12 step program has saved their lives, and testify to that regularly at meetings. I don't understand this (see steps below), but it is a fact, and these people are truly atheists by their own admission.

Here are the 12 steps of AA:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Last edited by Atom; 10-19-2007 at 12:41 PM. Reason: spelling
 
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  #159  
Old 10-19-2007, 07:41 PM
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Welcome to SHAM Atom. I know self acclaimed 'atheists' that swallow 'Ask and It's Given'. Just as I don't judge all religious people on extremists, I ask that others do not judge me on confused 'but ' atheists.

Atheism is NOT a belief. It's the _absence_ of belief. An absence of belief in light of no reason for believing.

Anyone claiming I am insecure in 'not knowing' is a fool. I'm the first to say I don't know, but understand that not all unknowns are equal. It's the religious that are generally uncomfortable with 'not knowing', so often assigning a reason, and purpose to everything... so sure that Jesus wants this or that, that god hates fags or Islam, that Mary was a virgin, that this universe was made so we could let our egos expand it. The religious certainty is quite sickening, a disease really.

Last edited by bytech; 10-19-2007 at 07:45 PM.
 
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  #160  
Old 10-19-2007, 07:45 PM
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My answer to the thread question:
God is the sound people make when they're too tired to think anymore.
 
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