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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2007, 05:40 AM
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At a very determinative juncture

Dear Friend,

I have no doubt that you, like any other honest person in the world, suffer from what is happening in Iraq.
We Iraqis are tired of sectarian violence fomented by Iran, we are tired of car bombs, death squads, militias; we are tired of occupation and meddling by other countries,
We are tired of sad stories about our children kidnapped on their way to school, about drilled heads and burned babies in the oven…
We don't want Iran to dominate our country; we don't want Iran's puppets like al-Maliki, Jaafari or Abdulmahdi to append our homeland to Iran,
We want to live in peace and freedom,
We don't want others to decide about our fate,
We want Iraqis determine their way of living, we have to stand up on our feet and we can make it.
To this end we have staged a comprehensive campaign based on a national, secular and democratic program. Day by day more Iraqis are joining this campaign.
As part of this effort, we need the support of everybody, everywhere,
You can join and support this very humanitarian and democratic cause by signing a petition on the following address:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/iraq789/petition.html

It doesn't take you more than a minute or two, but provides you the chance to participate in helping millions of people. Try it!
 
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:04 AM
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Dude, every single post of yours is about Iran taking control of Iraq, go out in the streets and have a look, it's not Iran occupying your streets, it's America.

I think you have a political agenda.
 
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:51 PM
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tired of occupation and meddling by other countries
then why...

Quote:
As part of this effort, we need the support of everybody, everywhere,
doh!?
 
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Dude, every single post of yours is about Iran taking control of Iraq, go out in the streets and have a look, it's not Iran occupying your streets, it's America.

I think you have a political agenda.
LOL. Obviously you have been missing the news. It's definitely Iran that is pulling the strings in Iraq.

LOL. The fact that you didn't know that is... beyond amusing.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
LOL. Obviously you have been missing the news. It's definitely Iran that is pulling the strings in Iraq.

LOL. The fact that you didn't know that is... beyond amusing.
How stupid of me, I didn't realize that it are Iranian troops at those checkpoints, it are Iranians asking for another 200 billion to their congress for the next year to maintain their occupation, it are Iranians who are building more than 20 military bases throughout Iraq and one of the biggest embassies on earth in Baghdad. It are Iranians who call the shots in Iraq.

Stupid me, that I didn't know that, sorry about that.
 
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
You think it's funny that Iranians are supporting Iraqi Shi'a Muslims in their ethnic cleansing campaign which kills thousands of Sunni Muslims every month? What kind of sick freak are you?

And, yes, the US is spending a lot of money to fight the sectarian terrorism in Iraq. But a quick reading of any newspaper any day of the week will show you the US isn't calling the shots. The Shiites are. According to Sunni leaders, the Shiites are killing off the entire populations of Sunnis.

You think this is funny.

Sick. Freak.
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:33 AM
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No I don't think it's funny at all, what I do think is that the USA has made a fine mess over there.

Not funny. and I think the Bush administration are a bunch of sick freaks.

What has the USA gained in Iraq? is it more safe for the people since the invasion? NO, was there any of this sectarian violence under Saddam? NO, Do they have better living conditions after all the years of "help" from the USA? NO. They don't even have electricity most of the day, shools are defunked, hospitals are defunkt, roads are defunkt and everything is MUCH WORSE than under Saddam's regime.

So much for "liberating the Iraqi people", that's proven to be utter bullcrap, their circomstances are far worse than they ever were.

Everything that is happening now was predicted and warned for by numerous sources but the US government wouldn't listen, they preferred to give Halliburton&co a financial break, we now see the results.

I admit I was being sarcastic and that was what the smile was about, but you jump on every single post I make to get into some sort of debate fight which you are determined to "win" every single time, for you there is no such thing as sharing opinions, all you want is to crush mine.

 
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:56 AM
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was there any of this sectarian violence under Saddam?

Is this a serious question?
 
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cldnails View Post
was there any of this sectarian violence under Saddam?

Is this a serious question?
No, there was not such sectarian violence in Iraq, Saddam was waging war against the Kurds, just as Turkey has been doing, but the sunnies and shi'ites were not bombing eachother's mosques and killing eachother in the streets, there was electricity, people could work and live in a much more relaxed invironment than before he got ousted, Mind you, I do NOT say that Saddam was good for his people, but he didn't ruine the country in the extent as what happened with the Americans in charge.

Saddam was a tirant and a dictator, but the people had electricity and could walk on the streets without being bombed.

What I try to say is that the Americans made huge mis-calculations and the Iraqi people pay the price, while American companies enrich themselves over their backs.

Now they try to blame Iran for their own mis calculations, which is totally immoral in my view, Again, I DO NOT think that Iran is such a nice country and do not defend it, but I find it immoral that the American government isn't looking in the mirror to see it's own mistakes and attempts to push the blame on everything but themselves.

Besides that, I personally believe that this war is NOT supposed to end, I think that it is in the interest of those who profit from the war to keep it going on for as long as possible, I think this whole war is motivated by financial reasons and all other reasons are just excuses to start it and to keep it going. mind you, that's what I think, I don't say that's a fact, but I have strong feelings that this is the case.
 
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferre
No, there was not such sectarian violence in Iraq, Saddam was waging war against the Kurds, just as Turkey has been doing, but the sunnies and shi'ites were not bombing eachother's mosques and killing eachother in the streets
LOL. I find the ignorance in that statement amusing. He murdered 61,000 Shiites in Baghdad alone.

Oh, that 61,000? That surely wasn't violent, eh? No. Murder? I'm sure they all committed suicide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Saddam was a tirant and a dictator, but the people had electricity and could walk on the streets without being bombed.
Democracy and freedom is not always the most safe way.

Are you suggesting that freedom is not worth it? In Russia, crime was almost nil under the Soviet system. Since they gained democratic freedoms, violent crime has skyrocketed. If safety is the priority, then surely we should return Russia to the Soviet system, demolish freedoms and democracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Now they try to blame Iran for their own mis calculations
Nobody is blaming Iran for America's miscalculations. They are blaming Iran for the bloodthirsty Iranian campaign of sectarian murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Besides that, I personally believe that this war is NOT supposed to end
Well of course it is not supposed to end, not if the Shiites get their way. They want the Sunni's dead. When the Sunni's are dead, then it may end.

Take a break from spewing nonsensical partisan rhetoric and take a look at who are committing the murders, and who is being murdered.

Is it American oppressors being murdered, or Sunni women and children? Looks like the women and children are leading in the victim category.

Who is doing the bulk of the murdering? Bloodthirsty and rabid American oppressors, or bloodthirsty and rabid Shiite terrorists armed with Iranian technology?

Yeah, using your head makes a hell of a difference, eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
So much for "liberating the Iraqi people", that's proven to be utter bullcrap, their circomstances are far worse than they ever were.

No, sweetheart, they are liberated. It's not bullcrap, bull pie, or bull frog. If you care to educate yourself, you'll see that liberty often means skyrocketing crime. We saw that in Russia. We saw that violent crime rates are highest for transitional democracies.

Of course, many Europeans don't seem to value freedom so much. They would sacrifice freedom, and readily return Iraq to a bloody dictatorship under Saddam. You are one of those, no? Given the choice, you would rather have Saddam quietly murdering and burying hundreds of thousands of his own people, than have them killing one another on the 6 o'clock news, right?

You know, you can take the safety principle, and apply it further. If we can agree that "safety > democracy and freedom", then the next step will be regulating smoking. Regulating food. Anything that produces accidents, injury or death. Red meat. Alcohol. Guns. Knives.

Freedom. Freedom is the biggest killer. If safety is indeed greater than freedom, we should put all the citizens in padded cells. We should feed them health food. Being locked up in a padded cell 24/7, there will be no automobile fatalities. No fights. No homicides. We can seriously cut down on heart disease, lung cancer, and other preventable diseases.

Sure, no freedom, but your sacred safety is there.

Me? I prefer freedom. Sure, people will kill each other. But they are free.
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:56 AM
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So why not leave the country and let them freely kill eachother?
 
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Old 09-27-2007, 09:58 AM
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So why not leave the country and let them freely kill eachother?
Um, because murder is generally frowned upon? Because we are humans and we prefer that people be given a chance to improve their lot?
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:00 AM
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Um, because murder is generally frowned upon? Because we are humans and we prefer that people be given a chance to improve their lot?
Fair enough, but according to the Bush regime, Saddam has been removed, democracy has been installed and mission is accomplished, isn't it their own business to clean up their own country now?
 
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:05 AM
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Fair enough, but according to the Bush regime, Saddam has been removed, democracy has been installed and mission is accomplished, isn't it their own business to clean up their own country now?
Well, Ferre, since I am a fan of letting people answer their own questions, I'll let you answer that.

Should we leave when the Sunni's are asking us to stay and prevent a wholesale bloodbath in the form of ethnic cleansing?

How many millions of people have to die before you think that maybe your insane anti-Americanism should take a back seat to human life?
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:09 PM
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No I don't think it's funny at all, what I do think is that the USA has made a fine mess over there.

Not funny. and I think the Bush administration are a bunch of sick freaks.

What has the USA gained in Iraq? is it more safe for the people since the invasion? NO, was there any of this sectarian violence under Saddam? NO, Do they have better living conditions after all the years of "help" from the USA? NO. They don't even have electricity most of the day, shools are defunked, hospitals are defunkt, roads are defunkt and everything is MUCH WORSE than under Saddam's regime.

So much for "liberating the Iraqi people", that's proven to be utter bullcrap, their circomstances are far worse than they ever were.

Everything that is happening now was predicted and warned for by numerous sources but the US government wouldn't listen, they preferred to give Halliburton&co a financial break, we now see the results.

I admit I was being sarcastic and that was what the smile was about, but you jump on every single post I make to get into some sort of debate fight which you are determined to "win" every single time, for you there is no such thing as sharing opinions, all you want is to crush mine.
ferre, honestly, we cannot blame america for everything... that the muslim sects are trying to kill each other since ages has nothing to do with the americans in iraq....

oh, and "no sectarian violence under saddam".... how should i pu it friendly... might not be completely true??? what about ths curds..... and many - many - many others!
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