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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
do I have to translate this for you?
Ferre, your logic is worse than your grammar.

You keep saying the US government tells only lies.

You say the WMD story is a lie.

Then you show me this US government document about Operation Northwoods.

I asked you where you found the document. You say:
Quote:
it comes from the same source as the stories about Saddam's WMD's
Therefore, both documents are lies (fakes).

You're contradicting yourself.
 

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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:43 PM
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To answer you question very slowly so you will understand.

two documents comming from the "same source" does not implicate a document as telling the truth, your question was not a really intelligent one but only had the purpose to distract attention from the real issue.

U.S. intelligence wrote that document.
U.S. intelligence told the world Saddam had WMD's

if you had asked "Does U.S. intelligence tell the truth?" This I can not answer, but it had been a more evident question.
 
  #163 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:47 PM
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You guys really need to chill and discuss this more calmly.
John, we're havin' fun.
 
  #164 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:55 PM
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U.S. intelligence wrote that document.
U.S. intelligence told the world Saddam had WMD's
That's not what you originally said, and you know it. You have said all along that everything coming from the US government was false. Therefore, the Operation Northwoods document would have to be false, too, since you found it in the same place as the story about the WMDs.
 
  #165 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:55 PM
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Btw, that plan to set up a few "terrorist attacks" and kill citizens, in order to have an excuse to invade Cuba, was signed, and officially booked and registerd prove, you can find them, when you look at the numbers on the documents, in the U.S.A. archives.
The existing of the WMD's however, has not been proven and there is not one official documented prove of their existance.

..and I'm having fun too. :wink:
 
  #166 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:58 PM
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Who needs WMD? As far as most Americans are concerned, we don't even care if they had guns or not. The very fact that SH was killing his own people by the tens of thousands was enough to justify taking him out.
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtroxel
Quote:
U.S. intelligence wrote that document.
U.S. intelligence told the world Saddam had WMD's
That's not what you originally said, and you know it. You have said all along that everything coming from the US government was false. Therefore, the Operation Northwoods document would have to be false, too, since you found it in the same place as the story about the WMDs.
Let me see that quote where I state that "everything coming from the US government is false"?

I did never say that, I did say the U.S. has told the world a lie to have an excuse to invade Iraq. Please do read what I write, instead of "assuming" and quote me wrong.
 
  #168 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:00 PM
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in the U.S.A. archives
But you said you found them in the same place that the reports about the WMDs are. You're changing your story.
 
  #169 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
Who needs WMD? As far as most Americans are concerned, we don't even care if they had guns or not. The very fact that SH was killing his own people by the tens of thousands was enough to justify taking him out.

Sure, but with this same justification we should invade China, South Korea and a few other nations I know of that are killing their own people by the thousands. why don't we?
 
  #170 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:01 PM
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Hey everybody, my vacation starts today, so I'll see you all later.
 
  #171 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtroxel
Quote:
in the U.S.A. archives
But you said you found them in the same place that the reports about the WMDs are. You're changing your story.
You are changing my story.

Same source, not "same place".
 
  #172 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:08 PM
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Does the expression "troll" mean anything to you, btw?

now we're asking questions anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
On the Internet, troll is a slang term for a person who posts messages intended to create controversy or provoke an angry response rather than to add content to a discussion.
 
  #173 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
Who needs WMD? As far as most Americans are concerned, we don't even care if they had guns or not. The very fact that SH was killing his own people by the tens of thousands was enough to justify taking him out.

Sure, but with this same justification we should invade China, South Korea and a few other nations I know of that are killing their own people by the thousands. why don't we?
Ferre,

This is not a logical statement. I said it was jusified, not that we should do it where ever it happens.

You walk by the park and there is a 80 pound guy raping a girl, and a 500 pound guy with a nuke strapped to his back raping a girl.

Are you going to say, "Well, since I can't stop the 500 pound guy from raping the girl, it would be wrong of me to stop the 80 pound guy?"
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Does the expression "troll" mean anything to you, btw?

now we're asking questions anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
On the Internet, troll is a slang term for a person who posts messages intended to create controversy or provoke an angry response rather than to add content to a discussion.
Yep.. it sure does mean something to me...

It perfectly describes YOU and what YOU have been doing ever since you got here at IMR.

.... and that is the honest to God truth, Ferre.

Except you do add content, though not always factual... you do add content.
 
  #175 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:34 PM
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John you are right, and I never said we shouldn't have kiked Saddam out.
What I do ask myself, is way sell out the country before?
Why use weapons on the civilians that are going to cause sickness and dead for the next 400 years?



THAT is what I question. There are plenty other scenario's possible and the US would have had the respect of all the world when they had not sold out the country to Halliburton first. I have been many times in the middle east and they have a very good petrochemical service industry. One of my best friends has a company like that in Dubay, I know they had very skilled people in Iraq and the whole area, what is Halliburton doing there? this is the corruption that has gotten into this world and I don't like it at all. Do you know WHO produces depleted uranium weapons?

I'm all for bringing more peace to this world.
I'm all for getting rid of dictators.

But I am also all for humanity and ethics. If we, the world, deside to "eliminate" dictators, at least let us do it without destroying a country's invironment for generations to come, at least let us not set up concentration camps, at least let us not sell out the people's jobs when we "give" them freedom.

My issue is not if Saddam got what he deserved, my issue is the Iraq people pay, and suffer way more then they can ever recover from in the process. And way more then when the US had choosen another scenario.

At present times, already more people are dead then Saddam ever did. More people are in jails then under Saddam. what do these people have to think about this?

Sure it's a good thing Saddam got kicked out but that does not justify "how". there were only better scenario's but Halliburton/Cheeney/Bush needed the $$$ for their own private interests and they did it as they did it, we all know how.

And you can't force any country to obey international law when you violate it yourself all the time, you loose your credibility, that's what we witness now.
 
  #176 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Does the expression "troll" mean anything to you, btw?

now we're asking questions anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
On the Internet, troll is a slang term for a person who posts messages intended to create controversy or provoke an angry response rather than to add content to a discussion.
Yep.. it sure does mean something to me...

It perfectly describes YOU and what YOU have been doing ever since you got here at IMR.

.... and that is the honest to God truth, Ferre.

Except you do add content, though not always factual... you do add content.

Anyone agree?
 
  #177 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:46 PM
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Anyone agree?

Ferre, controversy and provoke are your middle names for God's sake!

But at least you add content.

I try to but... I'll admit... my emotions do get in the way sometimes.

I know I'm no angel, and I don't claim to always add helpful... or even relevant content.

I, unlike many (and this is not a personal attack, Ferre) have no problem admiting when I'm wrong.
 
  #178 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:54 PM
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Hmm. Reading over this thread, I see way too much in the way of personal attacks and way too little in the way of objective, rational discussion.

*Closing*.
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