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Old 04-19-2004, 02:58 PM
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WHY DO THEY HATE US? Let me count the ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan Russow
WHY DO THEY HATE US? Let me count the ways

Joan Russow (PhD)

After the attack on the World Trade Centre in September 11,
2001, the US administration was asking the question "why do
they hate us" but no one at that time was prepared to answer
the question. Now with the National Commission on Terrorism
which is re-visiting the "intelligence" prior to the attack,
the question needs to be answered.

The US administration could be hated because the US
administration either alone or along with others has:
  • engaged in covert and overt "Operations" against independent
    states; from "Operation Zapata", and "Operation Northwoods"
    against Cuba, through "Operation Candor" in Chile, through
    years of euphemistic operations such as "Operation Just Cause"
    against Panama and more recently "Operation enduring freedom"
    against Afghanistan, and "Operation Iraqi Freedom"against Iraq
  • targeted and assisted in the assassination of leaders of
    other sovereign states, and condoned the targeting and
    assassinating of leaders by other states

  • undermined Common Security: peace, human rights, environment
    and social justice.
  • undermined the international resolve to prevent the scourge
    of war by intimidating or offering economic incentives in
    exchange for support for military intervention; (the US
    continually cajoles, intimidates, and bribes, on other members
    of the United Nations.)
  • perceived justice in terms of revenge through military
    intervention rather than respecting the jurisdiction of the
    International Court of Justice, and misused Art 51 in the
    Charter of the United Nations to justify military aggression
  • disregarded obligations incurred through conventions,
    treaties, and covenants; and made commitments through
    conference action plans, related to the Public trust/ Common
    security - peace, environment, human rights and social justice
  • Failed to sign, failed to ratify, failed to enact the
    necessary legislation to ensure compliance with, or respect
    for Public Trust international Conventions, Covenants and
    Treaties,
  • demonstrated disdain for the international rule of law, and
    refused to accept the jurisdiction or decision of the
    International Court of Justice
  • undermined international obligations incurred through
    Conventions, Treaties, and Covenants, and commitments through
    UN Conference Action Plans, related to the Public Trust or to
    Common Security -peace, environment, human rights and social
    justice
  • failed to act on commitments made through UN Conference
    Action Plans, or failed to fulfill expectations created
    through General Assembly Resolutions.
  • promulgated propaganda for war in violation of the
    International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights
  • justified military intervention by misinterpreting Article
    51 of the UN Charter " Nothing in the present Charter shall
    impair the inherent right of individual or collective
    self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the
    United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures
    necessary to maintain international peace and security
  • participated in military organization, such as NATO that has
    a first strike nuclear policy in violation of the ruling of
    the International Court of Justice that the use or threat to
    use nuclear weapons was contrary to international humanitarian
    law,
  • misconstrued prevention of war by adopting a policy of
    pre-emptive/preventive attack to aggressively attack sovereign
    states that are designated as being on the axis of evil.
  • established military bases in sovereign states (in the case
    of the US over 700 military bases in over 40 countries around
    the world
  • produced weapons of mass destruction such as nuclear,
    chemical, and biological, in defiance of the global commitment
    made at Stockholm in 1972 to eliminate the production of
    weapons of mass destruction. and refused to abide by the Non
    Proliferation treaty obligations
  • circulated nuclear powered or nuclear arms capable vessels
    throughout the world, and berthed these vessels in urban ports
  • planted land mines throughout the world, and failed to sign
    and ratify the Convention for the banning of Landmines
  • moved towards the militarization of space, and increasing
    the arms race through the US Anti-ballistic Missile system
  • used weapons such as Depleted Uranium and cluster bombs that
    would be prohibited under the Geneva Protocol II
  • continued to engage in cruel and unusual punishment -
    Capital punishment.
  • promulgated globalization, deregulation and privatization
    through promoting trade agreements, such as the WTO/FTAA/NAFTA
    etc that undermine the rule of international public trust law
  • subsidized and invested in companies that have developed
    weapons of mass destruction, that have violated human rights,
    that have denied social justice, that have exploited workers,
    that have destroyed the environment.
  • failed to ensure that corporations, including transnational
    corporations comply .. with international law, and to revoke
    charters of corporations that violate human rights, destroy
    the environment, denies social justice and contributes to war
    and conflict
  • opposed Mandatory International Ethical Normative (MIEN)
    standards and enforceable regulations to drive industry to
    conform to international law, and supported corporate
    "voluntary compliance"
  • failed to revoke charters and licences of corporations that
    have violated human rights, including labour rights, that have
    contributed to war and violence, and that have led to the
    destruction of the environment
  • promoted the privatization of public services such as water,
    and health care, and reduced funding for universities, and
    promoted corporate funding of education and corporate
    direction of research
  • contributed to environmentally induced diseases and poverty
    related health problems and denied universal access, to
    publicly funded not for profit health care system
  • failed to reduce their military budget and reallocate
    military expenses and transfer the savings into global social
    justice as undertaken through numerous UN Conference Action
    Plans and UN General Assembly Resolutions. (The US spends over
    500 billion per year on the military and is the major exporter
    of arms)
  • opposed an international commitment to transfer .7% of the
    GDP for overseas aid, and condoned corporations benefiting and
    profiting from war
  • advocated and supported IMF structural adjustment program,
    and exploited vulnerable and indigenous peoples around the
    world
  • failed to cancel third world debt and failed to ensure the
    human right to safe drinking water, the human right to
    unadulterated (non-genetically engineered pesticide-free
    food), the human right to safe accessible housing, the human
    right to be clothed, the human right to education, the human
    right to universally accessible not for profit publicly funded
    health care that stresses the importance of prevention of
    environmentally induced diseases, and poverty related
    illnesses. ( many of these rights have been protected through
    international human rights instruments)
  • promoted the spread of Evangelical Christianity around the
    world, undermining local indigenous cultures, and instilling
    fear through the dangerous, and absurd belief in the "rapture"
    , "Armageddon" and "left behind"
  • participated in the proselytizing of religion and the
    undermining of other cultures and perpetuated the notion that
    Christianity is superior to other religions
  • produced or permitted the production of toxic, hazardous,
    atomic waste, and failed to prevent the transfer to other
    states of substances and activities that are harmful to human
    health or the environment as agreed at the UN Conferences on
    the Environment and Development, 1992.
  • denied civil and political rights including the right to
    freedom of speech and the right of peaceful assembly, and
    fundamental labour rights
  • produced, promoted, grown or approved genetically engineered
    foods and crops and led to a deterioration of the food supply,
    and heritage seeds
  • ignored the warnings of the Intergovernmental panel on
    Climate change and have Change, and Kyoto Protocol
  • discriminated on the following grounds: - race, tribe, or
    culture; - colour, ethnicity, national ethnic or social
    origin, or language; nationality, place of birth, or nature of
    residence (refugee or immigrant, migrant worker); - gender,
    sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, or
    form of family, - disability or age; - religion or conviction,
    political or other opinion, or - class, economic position, or
    other status; * denied women's reproductive rights, * denied
    fundamental rights through the imposition of religious beliefs
  • enacted anti-terrorism legislation that violates civil and
    political rights, and engaged in racial profiling * failed to
    distinguish legitimate dissent from criminal acts of
    subversion.
  • accepted corporate donations, and deluded the public into
    thinking that citizens live in a democracy.
  • etc.
compiled by Joan Russow (PhD) Global Compliance Research Project Victoria, Canada

I very much agree with Joan Russow, and so do more and more people. Most People outside the US think this way anyway.
She has been, in my opinion, even mild in her conclusions and has not mentioned the US solution for their nuclear waste : They make bombs of it and drop it on other countries.(Iraq, 4 million tons!, Bosnia, + 700.000 tons, etc.) Making them the biggest nuclear waste pollutor of all times!!!
 

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Old 04-19-2004, 03:07 PM
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I think one of the reasons; even though it sounds stupid, is that in almost every Hollywood film I see, America saves the day again. You get sick of it lol
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Old 04-19-2004, 03:35 PM
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"Every" movie, video game, and US published history book. Puke. Wolfenstein could have been a good game, it still is, if you look beyond the blasphemy of it. But that is the hate caused as a "quick reaction"...

What Ferre talks about is the makeup of distrust behind closed political doors. I think most people around the world fear Bush more than they feared Saddam: Saddam was very visible, and everyone knew where he was at. Bush and his admin are in the Shadow, working with policies that break dozens of laws. No one knows when the Admin will pull the rug from underneath them, and paint them black...
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 04:11 PM
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It's not Bush we fear, Bush is a pathetic coward, it's the simple fact that Cheeney/Hallifax&co have so much power in that country that they can put any idiot they want in the white house and have him sit up and bark for them and in the meantime do what he's told. Bush is way too stupid to be afraid of and we all know it. Lol, check out how the Russians see American politics, they know what's going on too.

Quote:
Israel is trying to shoot its way out of a casualty ratio of one of their own to three Palestinians. For the time being, the US is trying to cope with a ratio of one to fifty. Israel's capture of the White House has taken a half-century to pull off, and for those, like Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Pentagon advisor Richard Perle who now command the heights of US power, this is a do-or-die campaign. Only it will be patriotic Americans who will be doing the dying. And they are not as simpleminded as their President.

Russian policy is therefore founded on letting the battlefield serve as a reminder of Nuri Said's warning. Officially, Moscow would like to effect a substitution of US troops for a combination of Iraqi sovereignty and United Nations support. But sovereignty cannot be rigged by Wolfowitz and Perle, nor paid for by the US Congress and the Halliburton Corporation. Nor can Bush's puppets in England, Australia, Italy, Poland, the Ukraine, and Japan pretend to UN legitimacy. The Iraqi resistance is making sure that point is already clear. Sooner or later, the allied occupation forces will have to be replaced. But creating a new Iraqi political consensus will take much longer than the simpleminded Bush has realized.

read the whole article here, the above is only a small part I cut out :
http://www.russiajournal.com/news/cn...shtml?nd=43361


The world has had it with them, we are fed up, it's only a matter of time before politicians in the world start to drop their support for the US In order for them to keep support in their own countries. In Holland, for one, the leading government is already declared dead by the people for it's support in Iraq and they'll pay for it in the next elections. Polls have never been so bad for them in our history. All Bush supporting politicians are doomed in our country and I guess that goes for more European countries. Specially after that newspaper censor thing and bombing a complete village and mosque.

Dutch people DO think the Geneva convention has legality.
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 04:29 PM
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LOL. People hate America. Oh no. Oh no. Whatever should I do?

Those poor innocent terrorists. Maybe I should buy them some first class airline tickets to NY to make up for it?
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Old 04-19-2004, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
LOL. People hate America. Oh no. Oh no. Whatever should I do?
And than there is this attitude of ignorance, "we don't care, we're the best, screw what the world thinks"...

Q: "Oh why, oh why did we get hit on 9/11".

A: "Because of what much of the world thinks, and some people but thoughts like this into action."

Build public relationships, not more nukes or space wars. Work with world, not against it. Today you have enough nukes to blow it up many times over... with the deficit, you won't for long. Make friends today, while it still seems half genuaine. Remember, in the end, even Rome fell.
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
LOL. People hate America. Oh no. Oh no. Whatever should I do?
Let's go to the carnival, I hear they're giving away free popcorn today.
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Q: "Oh why, oh why did we get hit on 9/11".

A: "Because of what much of the world thinks, and some people but thoughts like this into action."
Get your facts straight. The terrorists you are defending had very spefiic reasons for attacking America, none of which had to do with President Bush.
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
LOL. People hate America. Oh no. Oh no. Whatever should I do?

Those poor innocent terrorists. Maybe I should buy them some first class airline tickets to NY to make up for it?
In Holland we have an expression for this John, "Het paard achter de wagen spannen" translated it would be :

"Binding the horse behind the wagon."

One of the first things that came up in people's mind here in Holland when they heard 9/11, and me too, to be honest, was "boontje komt om z'n loontje". Translated that would be something like "yours harvest what yours sow"

If you support all that is responcable for the existance of terrorists and everything they fight against you shouldn't be supprised when they hit you.

Americans never ask themselves why those terrorists do not have the slogan "hate Europe" or "hate Russia" or "hate China" or "hate Japan", WHY NOT??? Americans are way too busy with their own little world to realize this, terrorists hate America for it's actions BEFORE 9/11
Terrorists hate America because America veto'd every attempt the UN has made to stop Israel from colonialising their land. They hate America for giving them Saddam <-- if you remember history? They don't hate other countries, they hate America. Weird isn't it, while there are so many other countries to choose. You would think they would go for the bad guys like 'Russia' or China but no, those terrorists fight America and all it represents.

American administration is right, war is dirty, their weapons have been killing thousands of innocent women and children in the Arab world the last decades. Now they have resistance and yes, it's dirty.

people all over the world realize this but they also realise it's not 'the American people' who are to blaim, everyone knows they are made silent, and how. Why do you think it is you are living in a police state?

 
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:29 PM
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I always assumed it was because we liked donuts. Go figure.
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
Quote:
Q: "Oh why, oh why did we get hit on 9/11".

A: "Because of what much of the world thinks, and some people but thoughts like this into action."
Get your facts straight. The terrorists you are defending had very spefiic reasons for attacking America, none of which had to do with President Bush.
I know that Bush didn't result in 9/11 directly, but Bush is giving billions of people reason to hate the way your country conducts business. Next time America is hit, there is a damn good chance it will be because of Bush and his policies. The world does not trust Bush, and that is more reason than anyone should need to get him out of the office. You are represented by a cowardly liar with f**cked up world view.
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:42 PM
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ah well. thats infinitely better than john kerry.
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Americans never ask themselves why those terrorists do not have the slogan "hate Europe"
?

Last I checked, Spain was in Europe.
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Old 04-19-2004, 05:49 PM
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Politcal threads oh my. But I think it's all daft and a clash of cultures.
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Old 04-19-2004, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
Quote:
Americans never ask themselves why those terrorists do not have the slogan "hate Europe"
?

Last I checked, Spain was in Europe.
Yes correct, and the group that did it has also declared WHY they did it, They did it because Spain is in Iraq supporting America.

England has had problems with so called terrorists also, why? because they occupy a part of Ireland, They will get more problems with terrorists now, why? because the they help "Cheeney.inc" occupy Iraq. Maybe terrorists next target is my home town, why? because our **licking government has send troops to help the US as well.
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 06:32 PM
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So you're saying you are scared of the terrorists, and if you were President you would do exactly as Osama wants you to do?
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Old 04-19-2004, 07:32 PM
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I thought we were talking about Iraq, not Osama. What does Osama have to do with Iraq?
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bytech
Q: "Oh why, oh why did we get hit on 9/11".

A: "Because of what much of the world thinks, and some people but thoughts like this into action."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bytech
I thought we were talking about Iraq, not Osama. What does Osama have to do with Iraq?
Bytech, do you think Iraq was responsible for 9/11? I haven't seen any solid proof indicating that. :
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Old 04-19-2004, 07:56 PM
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let me just use my bluntness here to tell you that you are getting on my damn nerves.

You are not america, you know nothing about america, you live in a country which has no relation politically to the US system, and I dare say you know nothing about the US system other than the name President Bush.

You come in here and a pathetic and weak attempt to bash american ideas when you yourself do not understand america. You want to discuss freedom. We have it. The difference is that in an attempt to ensure basic human rights and rights of the minority(another principle of democracy) we have had to make a few governmental provisions to help ensure that these are carried out.

What would happen you say if we did not? Because of the huge money difference here there would be a class based system in place, which would for the most part result in minorities and poorer majorities being suppressed and never having any say what so ever in anything governmental. Does that sound like freedom to you? sure as hell does not to me. Instead we have a system where poorer individuals like bill clinton, john edwards, wesley clark, and others can grow up to become something. regaurdless if you agree with these individuals or not, you have one hell of a hard time telling me how an undemocratic system controlled by elites can let some extremely non-elite like bill clinton become president.

the simple fact is that you live in this little world where you think you know something about American politics. It is like me trying to discuss the politics of the netherlands, i have no clue about your politics other than your basic governmental structure. if you want to take basic governmental structure you have to look at places like France and Russia who have an extremely strong structure for the president of the respected countries and you have a place that could easily not be democratic(as is the growing case with russia)

However turn that to America and you have to quickly learn that unlike your parlimentary system, our president and congress are not one in the same. There is a real power conflict there that ensures that it remains democratic. no one person controls everything. You want to know why bills take so long to pass? It is because it was intended to to ensure that they are able to uphold democracy. and if they do not we have judicial review to make sure of that one.

Don't come in here preaching to me about my country. I assure you that i know far more than you can ever imagine about it.
 
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Old 04-19-2004, 08:14 PM
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Re: WHY DO THEY HATE US? Let me count the ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
US solution for their nuclear waste : They make bombs of it and drop it on other countries.(Iraq, 4 million tons!, Bosnia, + 700.000 tons, etc.) Making them the biggest nuclear waste pollutor of all times!!!
oh and please do describe this situation to me. Last i checked we he only droped 2 bombs on foriegn soil and that was all during WWII.

No instead the US spends millions each year researching potential ways to get rid of the nuclear waste that we have, which is all being produced by nuclear plants producing energy. You sure are not going to power 290 million with windmills. Our current and temporary way to deal with this is to shove it in a mountain that is far enough away from any human life that it will not have any effect while we attempt to research other ways of solving the problem. I sure don't see the Netherlands leading any research on nuclear waste disposal.
 
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