Global Warming is a Hoax

[Harveyj]

Sita: Don't worry, we with the westminster system can rest easy knowing that our governments actually ARE accountable to the people, because whilst lobby groups hold a certain amount of sway, absolute power was wrested from one individual and spread over a multitude of non-farcically democratic representatives.
You've also got to remember, regardless of the pap, the USA isn't actually a democracy like our countries are. It's a representational republic.
Oh, and I believe this picture will help illustrate why our view points are considered invalid


But this raises a point I mentioned in another thread.
There seems to be an inability of certain people to extract one line of thought from another because they assume there is a connection.
It's kind of like double-think, or some perverse QED rational that also relies on not looking at anything other than an opening argument and then straw-manning it.

[StrongInTheArm]

Harveyj:
Satire!?! Funny, but myopic I think. From this forum alone you can tell that the majority of Americans are well balanced, thoughtful people.

Their two party political system inevitably seesaws between the parties. (Internationally speaking both parties are on the right. Its part of who they are. Nothing wrong with that.) We are at a time when the ultra right has had sway for some time, they'll swing the other way in due course. That is the way it goes. I do believe there is a large percentage of very insular people in America, but then many nations are the same.

I really hope that this thread does not turn into an American bashing thread because the issue of global warming is very important. The thread should not be allowed to be derailed by anyone.

[G10]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

The thread should not be allowed to be derailed by anyone.

Couldn't agree more dude and I suggest that folk keep posts on topic

btw, have you seen the price of fresh salmon lately!

[StrongInTheArm]

I think you'll find the reason is global warming.

[G10]

You so can't blame this on global warming... I would say it has more to do with the sedentary lifestyle of said salmon and their unwillingness to breed...

That and the fact that there are too many fishing boats out there overfishing for these babies..

Though to me anyway, what Ferre says is correct (yes dude, you did hear me correctly, I am actually agreeing with you ) and there is more damage that can be proven being done elsewhere and though global warming is a fact, the harder part to prove is just how much damage man is actually contributing towards this.

[StrongInTheArm]

I ain't gonna argue with you there dude. What is happening to the politics sub-forum, people agreeing! Whatever next?

Hang on ...

Originally Posted by G10

... global warming is a fact, ...

What do you mean global warming is a fact??? Prove it

[G10]

Hang on, we've changed sides......

Ok, someone mind telling me how that happened?

Next thing you know, South and Nails will be on this side of the fence also and supporting global warming

[Harveyj]

sita: Of course it's myopic... That map was made by a committee created on a 3-4 year electoral cycle
My apologies for wandering off there, though... Larrikinism n all that. And you are correct. It's only ever a vocal minority that ever get heard, and that does sway perception somewhat... on either side.

G10: The fresh water salmon here is going through the roof, too. Dry continent's getting drier.

[StrongInTheArm]

Originally Posted by G10

Hang on, we've changed sides......

Ok, someone mind telling me how that happened?

Next thing you know, South and Nails will be on this side of the fence also and supporting global warming

Something else I picked up along the way...

If you want to understand an issue argue against your own point of view. You get a real perspective on the case against that way. Anybody fancy the challenge of arguing for global warming.

Here is some help to get you started: http://environment.newscientist.com/...perplexed.html

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Ferre

I certainly agree with that statement and you hit the nail on the head. It even went as far as me being banned from these sub-forums when belittling, insults and intimidation didn't work to drive me away..

Your honesty impairment is annoying. Let's work on that.

You were banned from the subforums for failing to back up your statements. Specifically, here.

Now, as before, you are banned from the politics subforum. If and when you can back up your statement in that thread, you'll get access again.

In the meantime, you should work on that pathological lying of yours.

[cldnails]

I'm sorry SITA, I'm not sure how to describe your lack of understanding, yet willingness to spout off. Fly-By seemed best way to describe it without spoon feeding. No doubt we disagree, but it doesn't mean I look down on you, try being less defensive and more understanding.

We are at a time when the ultra right has had sway for some time

I know you couldn't be referring to the US or is this a joke? If the answer is Yes and No respectively then you are getting your wires severely crossed. It's been decades since we've had a true conservative right wing party majority in congress and as president.

I think discussing politics and where viewpoints are coming from are right on par for the topic of this thread. Knowing how a person views their society plays a direct part in how they view 'global warming' and our part in it.

[StrongInTheArm]

Originally Posted by cldnails

I'm sorry SITA, I'm not sure how to describe your lack of understanding, yet willingness to spout off. Fly-By seemed best way to describe it without spoon feeding. No doubt we disagree, but it doesn't mean I look down on you, try being less defensive and more understanding. ...

Apology accepted.

If you think someone is failing to understand your point, say so and give your reasons. It seems the way to go. Its easy to allow threads to slide into slanging matches. I wouldn't want to be a part of that. I can handle a little dig in the ribs now and then, I can dish it out too, but the main thrust has to be a reasoned discussion.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

The epitome of authority, is it NOT!

SITA, this is an ad hominen. If I posted a link that said 2+2=4, it wouldn't matter if the link was hosted by crazy-commies-for-obama.com or not.

If you have a problem with the information, then post post where it's in error, and then maybe follow up with a swipe at the source. But simply taking a swipe at the source is cheap and bull**** debate tactics that don't belong on v7n.

Understood?

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

If you had you would realise that a decade is the wrong time scale, I said as much to South earlier on, I guess you weren't paying attention.

Unfortunately, there is not "right" time scale. The fact is that for the the last century carbon dioxide emissions have been skyrocketing, and temperatures increase and decease, just like always. The fact is, the globe isn't warming, if we define "warming" the way the Webster's does.

And the idiotic statement that humans cause global warming with co2 is logically impossible, because the mass of co2 is naturally occurring.

[thegamerslink]

Originally Posted by South

When you're wrong you're really, really wrong. That's the most government-owned mindset statement you've made yet. Government laws? Pouring tax funded, ill-managed funds into studying what-ifs? NOT INDIVIDUALS?

I wish you would do an exercise, just for fun. Spend at least one evening imagining that the government wasn't god and wasn't there to solve all your problems. What if the country was new, you just got off the boat and things had to be dealt with. Nobody is going to pass a government mandate to appease one side or the other, nobody is going to force money from some people then spend it to fund what other people want funded.

How would you live in a world where nobody was coming to save you?

Yes, if there are real problems, individuals are exactly the ones to handle it, and the less government involvement the better. The vast majority of advances and solutions in our civilization didn't come from government mandates, government control, taxation, or government "leading the way". They came from brilliant, entrepreneurial individuals who risked their reputations, securities and fortunes to address the problems of mankind.

If there is a problem, in reality..not theory, then serious individuals will do the serious work and come up with serious solutions. Government, most of the time, is a bureaucracy of he said-she said, and who gets the most kickbacks. You want solutions? If you're looking to the government for them then you've either been asleep for the past couple of decades or your mind has been melted into buying empty promises that yield nothing.

Government, not the individual? Let me guess. An Obama supporter?

Not that this completely relates, but back in the 80's when I was still in the Navy, we pulled into port, I was on a reserve ship so durring 95% of the time we the active duty crew had to do it all. We were securing the lines and the Senior Chief Boats told us to take them to power, this meant putting the lines on wenches to pull us in even tighter, a thing we didn't often do, he said we may be getting a storm. The next day we got hit with an extremely strong storm, it caused flooding in a compartment, and some other various problem, we took care of the problems as the storm ensued, seemed like an hour but was probably only 10-15 minutes at the most. Then the storm began to calm down to just a standard rain. About 5 minutes later a flash came over the radio letting us know a severe storm was coming towards our area.

This is how the government works, all the red tape, the left hands and the multiple in charges that want to be involved makes it impossible for anything to get done in a timely competent manner. Not that government is a completely and totally bad thing, it does have it's purpose, but, it definitely shouldn't be involved in a very many things.

[thegamerslink]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

So your first link as evidence for the big global warming hoax is from the World Health Organisation, WAIT NO, my mistake! That is the WORLD NATURAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION. Hmmm, I wonder what they do ...

Welcome to the official home page of the World Natural Health Organization. The World Natural Health Organization was founded in 1983 by the late Bishop Dr. James A.L. Dussault. This web site has been established with the permission and the blessings of the Dussault Family. The World Natural Health Organization was established to unite the world in truth concerning natural health care. The World Natural Health Organization educates the world concerning medicine, nature and natural, alternative health care modalities.

The World Natural Health Organization was further established in order to unify all natural health care modalities, institutions of higher learning, clinics, hospitals, manufacturers of natural herbal formulas, healthy restaurants and other institutions that take the public health seriously.

Our mission is to unite all natural health care groups against the attack of government officials and special interest groups that want to eliminate the natural health care system, institutions of higher learning, the manufacturing of natural herbal products, and natural health care laboratories around the world.

There are many times when the public is given false and misleading information about educational institutions, new pharmaceutical drugs, medical procedures, present hazardous drugs, natural cures that don't work, poisons in food and water supply, and dangerous insecticide spraying.

The epitome of authority, is it NOT!

BTW while I'm here, you keep mentioning energy efficient lighting and their mercury content. You are right they do contain mercury. Tell me, have you ever seen a fluorescent tube light in your life time. Yes? What was that, all the time, ever since you were a child. Well guess what? Yeah, full of mercury. You have probably lived your whole life so far surrounded by them. http://www.p2pays.org/mercury/lights.asp

I'm not encouraged by your sources so far, perhaps they are to blame for your views. StrongInTheArm Sad

Perhaps if the references were more in line with your distorted views you wouldn't be so unwilling to listen to them?

And as far as fluorescent lights having mercury, what the hell do you think those little light bulbs are? Duh!......what I am referring to is the fact that if your global warming alarmists had their way, instead of the millions of businesses and schools and such that currently use them being the only ones having them, the billions of people that use lights in their homes would all be using them, so you would be multiplying the amount of the hazardous waste by 1,000+ times, we're not set up to be able to take care of that amount of hazardous waste today.

And you can't dispute the fact that the same scientists that started the Global Warming Panic. Are now recanting their previous views. When they first started sounding the alarm, it was supposed to have happened by now, only recently has the schedule been changed to become more convenient with the theory.

But just like many religions that have the prophecy of the end of the world, it's readjusted as the prophecy doesn't become fulfilled when expected and simply explained away as improperly interpreted.

[thegamerslink]

Originally Posted by Zap

What's with the "Brit" thing? If you guys are going to disregard or otherwise discount the comments made by others based on their nationality, then perhaps you could post a list of countries whose citizens you will take seriously and countries whose citizens you will not?

Since you're both moderators here, maybe one of you could make a new thread out of it and make it a sticky thread? That way, we could just lookup our country before posting here and govern ourselves accordingly.


Regardless of whether or not the issue affects only them, yeah, I've noticed that.
Caring about others doesn't have to involve huge governments with lots of taxes.

Zap, does it not make sense to take a different look at ones statement about a governmental system or country when they have never experienced it, or been properly taught it in the very least? 1 year of a college course on U.S. Government doesn't qualify anyone to judge it from the ground up in my opinion.

That would be no different than me coming in and telling you that Canada's government is a completely stupid idea because it's Canadian and doesn't work the same way ours does, or the idea of a Queen or King that has pretty much no real power over looking a Parliamentary system that leans towards socialism is a joke........the fact is, I don't know, and these are things I would never say, so don't get the dander up and jump me because these are not my feelings, simply a comparison of what you guys are always seeming to do towards our government.

I don't think the government should be able to tell you to wear a seat belt, that's a choice, I don't think the government should be able to tell you what doctor you have to go to when, or whether you're a priority medically, I don't think a government should be able to tell you what you can or can't eat or when you can do it. Seems some think other wise, that's not a free society, that is a socialistic or communistic, or anarchist type society. A society where the whole, or the government is convinced you can't be trusted to make your own decisions correctly so it has to do it for you, for your own good.

[StrongInTheArm]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

So your first link as evidence for the big global warming hoax is from the World Health Organisation, WAIT NO, my mistake! That is the WORLD NATURAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION. Hmmm, I wonder what they do ...

Welcome to the official home page of the World Natural Health Organization. ...

The epitome of authority, is it NOT!

Originally Posted by John Scott

SITA, this is an ad hominen. If I posted a link that said 2+2=4, it wouldn't matter if the link was hosted by crazy-commies-for-obama.com or not.

If you have a problem with the information, then post post where it's in error, and then maybe follow up with a swipe at the source. But simply taking a swipe at the source is cheap and bull**** debate tactics that don't belong on v7n.

Understood?

Yes, I know, I know

In mitigation I was a bit miffed. There I was quoting, I thought, good solid sources and he pops up with the World Natural Health Organisation. I made the mistake of giving in to my dark side. Too much of that going on at the moment. I should know better.

Still I'm glad he is back with a few good rants since you came to his defence. Although he doesn't seem to be trying so hard at the moment.

[StrongInTheArm]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Unfortunately, there is not "right" time scale. The fact is that for the the last century carbon dioxide emissions have been skyrocketing, and temperatures increase and decease, just like always. The fact is, the globe isn't warming, if we define "warming" the way the Webster's does.

Both South and TheGamersLink kept referring to the climate cooling down over the next decade or so. They clearly were not looking further.

Know much about climate change do you? Perhaps you can tell me why you know more about it than these organisations.

* NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies
* National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
* Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
* National Academy of Sciences
* State of the Canadian Cryosphere
* Environmental Protection Agency
* The Royal Society of the UK
* American Geophysical Union
* American Meteorological Society
* American Institute of Physics
* National Center for Atmospheric Research
* American Meteorological Society
* Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
* Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Brazil)
* Royal Society of Canada
* Chinese Academy of Sciences
* Academie des Sciences (France)
* Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
* Indian National Science Academy
* Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
* Science Council of Japan
* Russian Academy of Sciences
* Australian Academy of Sciences
* Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
* Caribbean Academy of Sciences
* Indonesian Academy of Sciences
* Royal Irish Academy
* Academy of Sciences Malaysia
* Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
* Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences

Why should I take your word over their's?

[cldnails]

I'm thinking I trust common sense over a profiteering fear mongering group. Common sense is something left out of a ton of these representations of theory.