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Old 02-13-2008, 05:06 PM
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Lightbulb REcession giving everyone a hard time

this recession thing has been the root of economic crisis to USA paralyzing some investments and businesses.. I personally is truly upset of this event..

I dont know if there are any good that this will bring us.

what about your thoughts?
 
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:13 AM
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uhhh.... more people need to be creative and find way to make money and new jobs... of course, finding a way to bring the jobs that were shipped overseas, back to the US wouldn't hurt either... there is no "quick fix", but people need to be making money in order to fight off a recession, and that is not happening.
 
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:29 AM
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This is just the start. Prepare for worse, the dollar is dying. The days that the dollar was a wanted currency outside America are over, no one wants it anymore. In the near future more and more dollars will be dropped on the market by countries and people who want to get rid of them and replace them with more valueable currency and this will weaken the dollar even more. The problem is that normally this would result in more American products being sold because they get cheaper, but there is a problem, most "American" products are not made in America anymore and the US economy does not profit from its sales, China does, and other cheap-labor-countries. More and more oil producing countries are changing the currency they want for their oil into Euros, this also will have a negative effect on the value of the dollar.

Anyway you look at it, the dollar is doomed.
 
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferre View Post

Anyway you look at it, the dollar is doomed.

My father spent the best part of an afternoon with one of those think tank economists maybe two years ago (chance meeting). He said then that within the circles that study such things it's pretty well accepted that the US economy is within two decades of running its cycle. I don't have enough knowledge of the subject to accept or reject that. I expect many factors can change that, but economies do fall. Especially when they're as mismanaged as ours has been.

Policy over the next decade should be a defining part of that. If we allow people in that intend to implement socialist policies that have failed all around the world then I expect the cycle will end sooner. If we can find a wise man somewhere it could be prolonged.

I worry for my children, but America has become way, way too complacent and almost stunningly ignorant of history and the worlds condition. When I see Obama on stage shouting out these paper-thin nothings with just enough Marxist overtone to give you a glimpse inside of the man, and these kids (and even more adults than earlier) in the stands screaming his name by the tens of thousands it reminds me of any documentary films of swayed nations that followed then fell.

America may be due a fall. What we would lose would be power and material, but that may be just what is needed to get back the more important things we've already lost.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
This is just the start. Prepare for worse, the dollar is dying. The days that the dollar was a wanted currency outside America are over, no one wants it anymore. In the near future more and more dollars will be dropped on the market by countries and people who want to get rid of them and replace them with more valueable currency and this will weaken the dollar even more. The problem is that normally this would result in more American products being sold because they get cheaper, but there is a problem, most "American" products are not made in America anymore and the US economy does not profit from its sales, China does, and other cheap-labor-countries. More and more oil producing countries are changing the currency they want for their oil into Euros, this also will have a negative effect on the value of the dollar.

Anyway you look at it, the dollar is doomed.
Demand for the US dollar has little real impact on the economy, unless you're deep in the stock market.

The cheapening of the dollar would, usually, help our exports. But I don't think that will help this time. Education used to be one of our biggest exports. But now foreign student numbers have declined and appear to continue to decline. For good reason. Our education is less "education" and more "indoctrination in political correctness". Why would anybody send their kid to America to get dumb?

The other exports - media, software, movies and music - don't really drive a widely distributed economy.

So, huh, I would think that the economy will continue to go down. The debt will continue to go up, and the fiat currency being tied to the wealth of the nation, will continue to lose value.

Think about how that devaluation of the dollar affects gas prices, and you can see Americans getting poorer and poorer.

The politicians will attempt to pick up the slack by creating new government services to employ the soon-to-be unemployed, and hike taxes to try to manage the debt, but that will just slow the economy even more.

I am pretty sure that America is headed for a recession that will result in serious change of economic policy. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. Probably one reason why I'd like a tax-and-spend Liberal to get elected president, just to speed up the process.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:50 AM
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According to a new book that's coming out, by a Nobel prize winning economist, America's recession is almost entirely due to the Iraq war.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat.../02/2003403735

Pretty much everyone agrees that the Iraq war was a dumb mistake, this just cements it. Frankly everyone involved in the current administration, and those kicked out previously for incompetence like Rumsfeld (believe me, you have to pretty p*ss-poor for Dubya to even consider sacking you for incompetence) should be kicked out of the country by the seat of their pants. Every citizen should join hands in an arch and really boot them up the backside every step of the way. Bunch of dumb SOBs.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:19 AM
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Is it right to inflict them on anybody else?
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:29 AM
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Is it right to inflict them on anybody else?
What? Kicks to the seat of the pants?
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:58 AM
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... Frankly everyone involved in the current administration, and those kicked out previously for incompetence like Rumsfeld (believe me, you have to pretty p*ss-poor for Dubya to even consider sacking you for incompetence) should be kicked out of the country by the seat of their pants. ...
If you throw them out of the USA they will end up in another country, that ain't fair to the other country. Or are you talking about into the Atlantic/Pacific?
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:12 AM
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We could send them to Iraq... they'll be hailed as heroes. That's what they said themselves isn't it? They'd definitely be hoisted shoulder high and carried through the streets, although probably not in the same kind of mood as they originally envisaged.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:45 AM
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Though the USA's economy has gone through swings, this one seems pretty ominous. But that's mostly because we don't know how it will come out. The signs don't look good, though. In the end, we'll pretty much get what we deserve. A culture of winner-take-all excess will eventually collapse on itself due largely to economic predation (i.e., the loan market; skewed tax laws). Neither "side" has a good solution. We shouldn't tax people to death (though the US pays very little taxes in comparison with much of the developed world) and spend the money in irresponsible ways, but we shouldn't stop taxing people altogether either and ammass huge deficits. We have tax and spend versus "pretend not to tax" and deficit. $1000 checks to each taxpayer won't fix the problem. If the economy collapses completely the lack of support system will be felt even harder. Those that have nothing but debt (i.e., the "prosperous" middle classes) will lose everything. The poorest of the underclass already have very little, but their situation could worsen. The rich, of course, will probably see some drop in their profits, but the responsible ones are set up to weather these storms. The irresponsible on all levels stand to lose a whole bunch, which is obvious. What we need is compromise between these "two sides" and a stop to the liberal-conservative back and forth nonsense. Those uncompromising polarized positions have hurt this country more than anything. We're a divided country politically (according to the not so reliable polls and the last few presidential elections). We need to act like a divided country and come together.
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:37 AM
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According to a new book that's coming out, by a Nobel prize winning economist, America's recession is almost entirely due to the Iraq war.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat.../02/2003403735
What elsewould you expect from a Socialist leaning, anti-free market nut?
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:45 AM
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though the US pays very little taxes in comparison with much of the developed world.
Not so.

http://internationaltrade.suite101.c...axed_countries

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Neither "side" has a good solution.
Republican Ron Paul had a solution - don't spend like crazy to begin with.
Quote:
What we need is compromise between these "two sides" and a stop to the liberal-conservative back and forth nonsense.
Compromise? That's what we've had since the New Deal. That's where all the debt came from.

The collectivists need to constitutionally prohibited from passing their laws, and the individualists need to be allowed to put the economy upright.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:15 AM
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What elsewould you expect from a Socialist leaning, anti-free market nut?
Amusing as your quick-sketch, off-the-cuff ad hominem attacks are, you characterise everyone who catches Republicans lying through their teeth as socialist leaning nuts. But that's why we love you.

This 'nut' was chairman of the U.S. Council of Economic Leaders, and senior vice president and chief economist of the World Bank. He chairs something or other in Manchester too.

I happen to think he's right. You know Citibank is now owned by the Middle East because the US Government has racked up so much debt that they couldn't bail them out? That's right: an American bank majority-owned by a bunch of sheiks, because your government blew the budget and borrowed heavily to wage war on Iraq. Great deal for America, yay, not.

Do you know what the interest rate on the loans for the Iraq war are? 200 billion dollars a year. Great deal for America? Well, if you think being in hock to China is good, which means you can't keep US sovereignty over your own financial institutions, let me know John. At the same time as America was getting ready to go to war, Bush actually chose to cut taxes. Does that make any sense whatsoever? No. Basically it's tantamount to fraud because he did it to hide from US citizens what the war would really cost. That true cost is now emerging.

Oil's gone from 25 to 100 dollars a barrel in the last 5 years. Great deal for America? You be the judge, John. That price rise alone costs America an extra 25 billion a year. On average, each US family is paying over $130 dollars a month for this war. Is that a good thing, John?

Here's a fact: the current recession is all thanks to a bunch of cretinous neocons running around thinking they're a cross between Jesus and Rambo. Which is why they should be booted out of town by the seat of their pants. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind who would defend the Dubya administration.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:55 AM
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Amusing as your quick-sketch, off-the-cuff ad hominem attacks are, you characterise everyone who catches Republicans lying through their teeth as socialist leaning nuts.
1. Um, the guy in question wrote a book on how to adjust policies to keep the socialist ideal workable.

2. Ad hominen attacks? What did you just say about Rush Limbaugh? In case you forgot:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post
who pays serious attention to a salad-dodging, work-shy prescription-drugs-junkie like Rush Limbaugh?
3. Saying somebody is socialist leaning speaks to their ideology. Unlike, say, saying that he is a "salad dodging, work shy, prescription-drugs-junkie".

4. I don't give a damn about anybody catching Repuublicans lying through their teeth. In fact, I think their need to be more people catching Republicans and Democrats lying. But it wouldn't do much good, would it? Most people, like you for instance, don't give a damn if the people they support are lying thieving pieces of social scum.


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This 'nut' was chairman of the U.S. Council of Economic Leaders, and senior vice president and chief economist of the World Bank. He chairs something or other in Manchester too.
Whoop-dee-damn-doo. Mao was President of the People's Republic of China. Einstein was named "Person of the Century" by Time magazine, and that didn't stop him from defending Stalin's murderous regime.

In my book, you stand or fall on whether you respect or deny individual liberty.


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Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post
I happen to think he's right. You know Citibank is now owned by the Middle East because the US Government has racked up so much debt that they couldn't bail them out? That's right: an American bank majority-owned by a bunch of sheiks, because your government blew the budget and borrowed heavily to wage war on Iraq. Great deal for America, yay, not.
America has been in debt for decades, under both Democrats and Republicans. Frankly, debt in itself isn't the problem.

For you to say "why are we in debt?" is like a woman asking "why are the snakes I put in my bed biting me?"

She should be asking why she put snakes in her bed to begin with. And we need to ask why we should be in debt.

The fact is, is debt were for a valid reason, then the debt is valid. Let's see, the majority of the spending is on social entitlement programs. Huh. I'd have to say the debt is invalid.

Since government was conceived to defend rights, all coercive wealth redistribution programs are invalid.

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Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post
At the same time as America was getting ready to go to war, Bush actually chose to cut taxes.
He didn't cut them enough.

And does it make sense? Perfect sense. It's brilliant. It put the government in deeper debt. But not enough debt, because they are still able to afford to impose ridiculous taxes and waste billions of dollars on stupid things. You know, like giving money to Robert Mapplethorpe to take pictures of one man urinating into a another man's mouth. Good Democrats.



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Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post
Oil's gone from 25 to 100 dollars a barrel in the last 5 years. Great deal for America? You be the judge, John. That price rise alone costs America an extra 25 billion a year. On average, each US family is paying over $130 dollars a month for this war. Is that a good thing, John?
The cost of oil is determined by supply and demand. If they could get $400 a barrel, the price would be $400 a barrel.

But let's see. Who is to blame. Huh. Toughie. Let's actually think about that.

Who was it that opposed drilling for oil in the Arctic Refuge? Who vetoed that bill that would have allowed the US to go after 7.7 billion barrels of oil? Oh, yeah, Democrats, with Bill Clinton in the lead.

Who opposes most oil drilling on US soil and offshore? Democrats. On the chance that some bird or fish might get an ouchie, we are forced to buy our oil from overseas.

Yeah, learn the facts, then open your mouth.

You suggesting that it's on the Republicans is like Ted Bundy accusing Mother Teresa of being a bad person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post
Here's a fact: the current recession is all thanks to a bunch of cretinous neocons running around thinking they're a cross between Jesus and Rambo. Which is why they should be booted out of town by the seat of their pants. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind who would defend the Dubya administration.
The current recession is due to long standing debt and a government that has continued to grow like a monster, financed by nothing more than a fiat currency that allows the government to tax its citizenry without mentioning "tax" and simply printing money.

When somebody buys a gun for $3, and then gives $50 to a homeless drunk, you would say that they lost $53 to defense?

Crazy.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:35 PM
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I'm not accusing the Republicans, John. I'm talking about the current administration. I hope you're not going to claim they act in a traditional Republican way. If the Republicans could muster a decent man of integrity, I'd swing that way. I'm a conservative by temperament, who simply has no faith in proven frauds and liars. If that means you have to boot them out, and give the other guys a chance, so be it. The current bunch simply can't hack it.

Quote:
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Most people, like you for instance, don't give a damn if the people they support are lying thieving pieces of social scum.
Actually I care more than most people I know. That's why I don't feel there are many politicians in the whole world who would deserve my vote. Also, I'll repeat, I'm a conservative by temperament, who simply has no faith in proven frauds and liars.

Also, when you define yourself as one thing or the other politically, Republican or Democrat, what you are doing is limiting yourself. What you are suggesting is that there are no good things which have ever come from the Democratic party. Clearly nonsense. If people do good things or take actions which lead to good things, praise them. Like Reagan. Great President. But then I think Bill Clinton was a good President, whereas Hillary would not be. Dubya is probably the poorest President ever. His old man wasn't too bad at all, though he started the cronyism that poor old Dubya first prospered from, and then was lumbered with.

And the Limbaugh thing wasn't an ad hominem attack, it was a statement of fact. I also forgot to call him a liar, hypocrite and bully, whose fans like other people to do their thinking for them. Compare him to Bill Buckley, then you'll get the true measure of the man.

As for the economist, so he wrote a book about how to keep the socialist ideal workable? So what? Does that mean he is incapable of telling the truth?
Anyhow, the socialist ideal isn't workable (forget about whether it's desirable, although of course it isn't) in the same way that the capitalist ideal isn't workable. These stupid sods called humans keep getting in the way.

That's why privatisation of national transport didn't work in the UK. It allowed in precisely the sort of greedy hogs whose noses you don't want in the trough and our rail is all shot to sh*t now. Which leads me to the conclusion that some things are better off under state control, some things aren't so vitally important (or shaft-able, to be more precise.) Sometimes you want state control, sometimes you don't. Claiming otherwise is really intellectually dishonest.
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:37 PM
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Also, I'll repeat, I'm a conservative by temperament
What is a temperamental conservative? Is that like an emotional conservative? Or a non-thinking conservative? The non-thinking part would make it Liberal, no?

Forget emotional judgments.

Liberal: Welfare state based on collectivism.

Conservative: Laissez faire, small government individualism.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
This is just the start. Prepare for worse, the dollar is dying. The days that the dollar was a wanted currency outside America are over, no one wants it anymore. In the near future more and more dollars will be dropped on the market by countries and people who want to get rid of them and replace them with more valueable currency and this will weaken the dollar even more. The problem is that normally this would result in more American products being sold because they get cheaper, but there is a problem, most "American" products are not made in America anymore and the US economy does not profit from its sales, China does, and other cheap-labor-countries. More and more oil producing countries are changing the currency they want for their oil into Euros, this also will have a negative effect on the value of the dollar.

Anyway you look at it, the dollar is doomed.
yah the dollar is dooooooomed and it is affecting everybody!
 
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:57 PM
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and is also affecting americans.. less power on dollar less jobs more will outsource which is nt good. its ok to outsource but nt all of the jobs..
 
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:03 PM
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Liberal: Welfare state based on collectivism.

Conservative: Laissez faire, small government individualism.
Delusional: Someone who doesn't think that state control of certain pivotal public services is necessary.
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