Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #21  
Old 07-01-2008, 01:45 AM
ezhel's Avatar
ezhel ezhel is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 04-26-07
Location: Never too far away
Posts: 1,584
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I have nothing against it, at least we might be able to protect ourselves while at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabo View Post
Having the right to keep and bear firearms will still not protect us from all the crimes out there.
 
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #22  
Old 07-01-2008, 03:57 AM
jabo's Avatar
jabo jabo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 03-05-08
Location: vacation with the folks
Posts: 3,858
iTrader: 2 / 100%
the thing with guns is that we can protect ourselves and our family with it but we should also know how we can protect ourselves and our families from it. 50% of US gun deaths are suicides
Quote:
Suicides accounted for 55% of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40% of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2% included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.
 
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-01-2008, 08:07 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabo View Post
the thing with guns is that we can protect ourselves and our family with it but we should also know how we can protect ourselves and our families from it. 50% of US gun deaths are suicides
Suicidal people will always end their life one way or another.

Last edited by Franc Tireur; 07-01-2008 at 08:13 PM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-02-2008, 04:17 AM
jabo's Avatar
jabo jabo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 03-05-08
Location: vacation with the folks
Posts: 3,858
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
Suicidal people will always end their life one way or another.
not if we don't make it easy for them... Dying from guns and from knifes or poisonous stuffs are different. You can head shot yourself and fatality comes immediately while drinking pills and cutting your wrist takes a little time and there could still be time to save them.
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-02-2008, 06:16 AM
John Scott's Avatar
John Scott John Scott is offline
Individualist
 
Join Date: 09-27-03
Location: Wherever I want.
Posts: 28,046
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabo View Post
not if we don't make it easy for them.
Silly statement there. Suicide is easy. Anybody with access to a car's exhaust pipe can commit suicide. And the suggestion that somebody determined to end their life would give up and decide to live if suicide were more difficult, that is an absurd suggestion.

And it's none of society's business to tell people they cannot commit suicide.
 
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-02-2008, 07:03 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
I agree with you John, it doesn't matter how they want to do that if they are determined to end their life.

A family member in my ex-wife side has tried to commit suicide many times before she was gone, nothing stopped her even doctors or medical treament. When you are motivated to end your life it doesn't matter by the way your are gone.

I beleive you have the right to end your own life, this is sad to say, but life is filled with choices. Suicidal people should try everything before taking this decision and get some help from family or organisations.
 
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-02-2008, 11:14 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
TechWizard TechWizard is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
And it's none of society's business to tell people they cannot commit suicide.
I conditionally agree with that statement..........and another problem with those that are suicidal is often they become homicidal at the same time. Not always but often those that are have no problems taking others with them and often desire it.
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Harveyj's Avatar
Harveyj Harveyj is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 06-03-08
Location: Sydney
Posts: 418
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
I conditionally agree with that statement..........and another problem with those that are suicidal is often they become homicidal at the same time. Not always but often those that are have no problems taking others with them and often desire it.
I'd be interested in seeing some studies on that (not sarcasm... Link 'em if you got 'em).
I've known a (disproportionately) large number of people that suicided (must be my company ).
None of them were particularly malicious, just desperately unhappy people.

That said, we don't have easy access to firearms here, or the right to bare them even if we are licensed.
Most of them just jumped off things, sometimes with the bungee cord around the wrong way if you catch my drift. Others took pills.
Lack of access to firearms didn't impede them on iota.
 
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-02-2008, 10:15 PM
TechWizard's Avatar
TechWizard TechWizard is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Believe it or not there are very few studies or reliable statistical information available on the subject. However there are a few studies whether they are biased towards gun use or focus primarily on an issue that may not really fit to this discussion.

Here are a couple
http://www.uni.edu/vanworme/murder-suicide.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/ju...medicalscience

There are more studies out there including a growing concern among the elderly especially the elderly males over age 55 that are care givers to their wives.

Bottom line here is that in olden days of psychology, as old as back in the 1700's suicide and homicide were directly linked. Only recently stemming from around the 1980's have actual true studies been even started on this subject. However with the overwhelming factors to be considered we'll never really know the true statistics of it. There are however many different forms of suicidal, there is the suicidal ones that live abnormally dangerous lifestyles, those that actively seek to end their life, those that seek to have others end their lives for them, and then there is the whole other group of types, those diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar. Those that experience psychotic episodes, those on psychiatric medications that alter brain function, those that take alcohol or drugs. Many different things to consider when talking about all this and like I said no blanket cover that answers it all.
 
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-02-2008, 11:36 PM
Harveyj's Avatar
Harveyj Harveyj is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 06-03-08
Location: Sydney
Posts: 418
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thanks for the links.
Whilst the Guardian is pretty rubbish as a news source when it comes to quoting research, it gives enough info on the studies themselves to be able to track them down.
Looks like I'll have some good bed time reading tonight.

Getting back to the OPtopic... 4th of July tomorrow...
Remember not to fire your guns in the air folks, those bullets come back down and hit people...
 
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-03-2008, 11:05 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
TechWizard TechWizard is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Also a few points to keep in mind when talking over this topic.

1. Guns don't kill people, people kill people
What does this really mean? Well if you outlaw guns for psychologically stable law abiding citizens the only ones left with guns are those that have them illegally and for illegal purposes in the first place. Leaving the innocent defenseless and unprotected.
And those that are intent on committing suicide or homicide will do so whether the means are readily available or not. Or for that matter if it is by gun, knife, strangling, jumping from immense heights, drugs, poisoning etc....

2.Studies do actually suggest that crime rates drop where guns are present
While studies can be skewed to the contrary. It's been seen that homeowners and business owners in such places as Texas and now in Florida that recently made the law that shooting in self defense was legal. Criminals are less likely to take the chance than in areas where they are for sure the home owner or business owner has no ready means of self defense. Just like a robber is less likely to attempt breaking into a home that has an alarm system or multiple dogs.

3.The Supreme Courts Decision Didn't Open It To Everyone For Any Reason
The supreme courts ruling that Washington D.C.'s gun laws were unconstitutional didn't state that every American everywhere and under any condition could own a gun of any type. Only that local and federal governments couldn't deny gun possession completely and across the board. Common sense gun control laws are still allowed and encouraged, such as Over 18 to purchase a gun, No felony convictions, No Mental Health issues, No fully automatic weapons, etc.....like I said, common sense gun laws are still able to be enforced.
 
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-03-2008, 11:34 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Complety agree with you Thegamerslink.

I think someone over 18 can purchase firearm and over 21 a handgun depending of state laws.

That's a fact that criminals don't obey to gun laws, and disarming law abiding citizens may only increase crimes.

I am wondering why the medias don't talk about all the DUI convicted drivers killing many innocents people on the road, the statistics are way higher than firearms. I don't see a difference between a criminal using weapons and Drunk drivers using their cars as a weapon.

Are people sue car makers because of innocent people killed by cars on the road?

I saw some anti-guns saying, oh but we've got a driver licence, we've go a training. Well I may disappoint you, because when I took my driving test in US (I've got my French licence that cost me more than $1000 and a very hard training), the US test was 2 blocks, no highway test, no freeway test, no traffic test. So if you call that a training...

It is a common sense when you are a firearms owner to take the proper training: from the range clubs, instructors in firearms, highly experienced shooters or military to handle safely the weapons you may own and don't forget to buy a safe to protect your kids accessing your weapons.

Last edited by Franc Tireur; 07-03-2008 at 11:42 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-03-2008, 05:46 PM
homebizseo's Avatar
homebizseo homebizseo is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 04-21-08
Posts: 1,629
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I'm glad we have a right to bear arms
 
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-04-2008, 03:27 AM
kimsonsolutions kimsonsolutions is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 05-19-08
Posts: 338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
2.Studies do actually suggest that crime rates drop where guns are present
I'm not an expert but Ive always heard that the criminality rate of america was higher than other country where you have to have a licence to use a firearm

i didn;t want to be involve in this topic cause it's a delicate topic for me non-american personn , let's say that i believe that allowing people to have gun will always lead to more trouble

there are criminal everywhere and will ever be but allow everybody to have gun and they become automaticly more dangerous, moreover this can also give ideas to some guys who would not have commited criminal acts otherwise.
 
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-04-2008, 03:28 AM
kimsonsolutions kimsonsolutions is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 05-19-08
Posts: 338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by homebizseo View Post
I'm glad we have a right to bear arms
 
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-04-2008, 06:32 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
TechWizard TechWizard is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
That studies I was referring to were based on U.S. cities and states. It's very difficult to do an accurate study of any type like this cross country/culture like you're suggesting. There are many more factors than simply is a gun legal or not. Things such as cultural maturity, cultural freedoms, structure of the family unit etc....
 
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-04-2008, 08:03 AM
kimsonsolutions kimsonsolutions is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 05-19-08
Posts: 338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
i understand of course that they are a huge amount of parameters to be takken in account

it's just that a study claiming that providing gun to everybody leads to more security is hardly believable from my point of view

i'm not against weapons but against their free access to unresponsible people

and my first reaction when ir ead articles about the decision of the superme court was : "it's sad because it invalidates most of the actions taken in cities to try to low crimes "

i'd like to precise that i don't invent this statements but read it several on different articles
 
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-04-2008, 09:00 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
TechWizard TechWizard is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Well, let me say this. Those that are imposed to commit suicide or homicide will do so. Will they still do so if a firearm doesn't exist? Do you not think yes? It's said that the act of Suicide and Homicide are both acts of aggression. Suicide of course is an act of inward aggression with homicide being the opposite. Studies and hypothesis are really still going on as to whether homicide and suicide have an inverse connection. Meaning if Suicide rates rise then Homicide rates should lower. Other studies show that they actually are parallel(http://books.google.com/books?id=Z6i...sult#PPA296,M1)

Other things to consider when talking about suicide and homicide studies is the use of SSI inhibators or stimulators. Paxil, Zoloft, Prozac are being found to contribute to suicidal tendencies. Also the use of such drugs as Ritlan and other ADHD medications that were overly prescribed here in the U.S. stemming from the early to mid 90's and only recently a problem beginning to be corrected(http://www.naturalnews.com/019342.html)

As for the method used, it could be just a matter of convenience whether a gun is used, a bomb is used or if poison is used. It may also be a matter of social, geographic, or cultural criteria. It's really difficult to say as the one that commits the murder/suicide or just the suicide isn't around for questioning and open answering after the fact.(http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?re...=10398&page=33)
 
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-04-2008, 09:10 AM
kimsonsolutions kimsonsolutions is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 05-19-08
Posts: 338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Actually i was not talking about suicides but ciminality in general

for me suicide has nothing to do with weapons

as you said it weapons or not somebody who want to end his life will , no matter how
 
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-04-2008, 09:15 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
TechWizard TechWizard is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Moved http://www.v7n.com/forums/politics/9...-burglars.html

Last edited by TechWizard; 07-04-2008 at 09:18 AM.
 
Reply With Quote
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baby with three arms! JuggoPop Forum Lobby 65 09-29-2008 02:41 PM
Seduce Women Under Your Arms Pit... hem Forum Lobby 22 06-16-2008 05:43 AM
Oh boy! A new arms race? ewomack Controversial Social Issues 9 06-07-2007 02:13 PM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:26 AM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2018 VIX-WomensForum LLC