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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 12:11 PM
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We won't know how will it be unless it happen. There are lots of things and changes that can occur in 1 year...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 12:32 PM
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Thats so true!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DesignerRicky View Post
I say give him a chance.
Many countries have put race behind them although
Its the qualities that come out best.
He can become self neglegant and drive
down the economy.
VBut who can tell the future.
Only opinions.
you are right Ricky! nobody knows the future. However, we can sometimes predict the future based on available facts and common sense.
 
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
You do realize that the definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth, right?

We have not yet had one quarter of negative economic growth, let alone two.

The first quarter of 2008 had 0.9% growth, not great but not negative. The figure for the second quarter 2008 was just released and was 1.9% growth, again not great but still, not negative,
Ahhh YES! The old "head in the sand" approach.
Also very good for other currencies.
 
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Ahhh YES! The old "head in the sand" approach.
Also very good for other currencies.
Head in the sand? He's calling you out for not knowing the definition of a recession.

Because democrats know that their base for the most part isn't very bright, they've been claiming a recession where one doesn't exist. It's good for scaring people who don't know the difference. If you're going to repeat the lie you either a) are willing to perpetuate the lie with them or b) fall into the category mentioned above.

So who has their head in the sand?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by South View Post
Head in the sand? He's calling you out for not knowing the definition of a recession.

Because democrats know that their base for the most part isn't very bright, they've been claiming a recession where one doesn't exist. It's good for scaring people who don't know the difference. If you're going to repeat the lie you either a) are willing to perpetuate the lie with them or b) fall into the category mentioned above.

So who has their head in the sand?
You do, along with him, if you think everything is just hunkey dorey.
I, along with many others, including your own media, are calling it exactly what it is, a recession.

Put your head back in the sand if you want to argue semantics.
As I said, it's great for my bottom line.
By all means, continue to enjoy the prosperity of banks going under, mortgages in default, jobs being lost, your currency losing ground against all others, soaring national debt, plummeting property values. Things are looking up!
 
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
You do, along with him, if you think everything is just hunkey dorey.
I, along with many others, including your own media, are calling it exactly what it is, a recession.

By all means, continue to enjoy the prosperity of banks going under, mortgages in default, jobs being lost, your currency losing ground against all others, soaring national debt, plummeting property values. Things are looking up!
What are you missing here? It's not semantics. A recession is what happens when certain criteria is met. That criteria hasn't been met. It's not a recession. Why is that hard for you? A recession isn't a generality, it's a defined thing. Nobody is painting a rosy picture, people are struggling and things are bad. Anybody can see that. It's a cycle we go through and always have. The plain fact is that even if the sky rains fire, babies explode, everyone on the continent loses their homes to green space goblins, and everybody's puppy dies simultaneously, a recession will still be defined by two quarters of negative growth. That's not an opinion, that's the definition of the word.

Our economy is suffering, our dollar is down, no doubt, but why are you calling it "head in the sand" to acknowledge that we haven't hit recession yet? If we don't get a fourth quarter turn, I expect us to move into a recession, but until the criteria is met...that just isn't what it is. It may be bad, tragic...worse than a recession, but until they redefine the term recession, or we meet the criteria of the current definition, we aren't in one.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 08:30 PM
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I would appreciate it if you would refrain from mischaracterinzing my words. At no point in my post did I say that everything's "fine" or "hunkey dorey".
 
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by South View Post
What are you missing here? It's not semantics. A recession is what happens when certain criteria is met. That criteria hasn't been met. It's not a recession. Why is that hard for you? A recession isn't a generality, it's a defined thing. Nobody is painting a rosy picture, people are struggling and things are bad. Anybody can see that. It's a cycle we go through and always have. The plain fact is that even if the sky rains fire, babies explode, everyone on the continent loses their homes to green space goblins, and everybody's puppy dies simultaneously, a recession will still be defined by two quarters of negative growth. That's not an opinion, that's the definition of the word.

Our economy is suffering, our dollar is down, no doubt, but why are you calling it "head in the sand" to acknowledge that we haven't hit recession yet? If we don't get a fourth quarter turn, I expect us to move into a recession, but until the criteria is met...that just isn't what it is. It may be bad, tragic...worse than a recession, but until they redefine the term recession, or we meet the criteria of the current definition, we aren't in one.
It's semantics.
Would you prefer the term "pre-recession" or maybe "pre-recessive conditions" or would I have to totally PC it up for you with the phrase "possible pre-recessive conditions sometime in the future, maybe"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
I would appreciate it if you would refrain from mischaracterinzing my words. At no point in my post did I say that everything's "fine" or "hunkey dorey".
Since you're going to be a hardass about it, I will try my best to refrain from "mischaracterinzing" your words in the future.
Perhaps you could explain WTF that actually means.
 
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
It's semantics.
Would you prefer the term "pre-recession" or maybe "pre-recessive conditions" or would I have to totally PC it up for you with the phrase "possible pre-recessive conditions sometime in the future, maybe"?
Alright, I'll give up on this. You're gonna re-define the word just for you...I can't argue with that. I'm not in charge of it anyway.

BTW, I understand you standing your ground here as not to look foolish for not knowing what the word meant, but that's the kind of stuff that can get you red faced in a real debate. It's all in fun here though.

That reminds me, I need to change the oil in my Escalade tomorrow. Well , it's not technically an Escalade, it's a Bronco, but that's like a pre-Escalade..so why argue semantics on it?
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 09:48 PM
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Not looking to redefine the word. And I know the meaning of the word.
Just thought I'd use the r-word since most everyone else already is.

But, again, I'll go with "possible pre-recessive conditions sometime in the future, maybe" just for you. I just thought "recession" would be faster to type and less convoluded, but I also know how to copy and paste text.

Side Note: Do you really think you're going to avoid it at this point?
 
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Not looking to redefine the word. And I know the meaning of the word.
Just thought I'd use the r-word since most everyone else already is.

But, again, I'll go with "possible pre-recessive conditions sometime in the future, maybe" just for you. I just thought "recession" would be faster to type and less convoluded, but I also know how to copy and paste text.
This is all really a bit silly. I know our economy is in a mess. We agree completely on that. My business depends on advertising and we've been taking a hit as retailers have slowed down. Lots of people are suffering and fuel is out of control.

The bank shut downs I have no sympathy for. If you're gonna make loans to people you know can't pay and with a credit history showing they probably won't anyway..what do you expect? If you're going to take the risk and accept those high interest payments then you have to swallow the inevitable when it comes. Secondary lending is a slippery slope, and they went waaaay too far down that road.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Side Note: Do you really think you're going to avoid it at this point?
I don't see it happening til after 4th quarter, but I expect it will. The fact is we're due. Some people are saying we really need one. I haven't decided yet if I agree.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:09 PM
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All that aside...

How is it that you guys got into this state? So opposed? Conservatives and Liberals.
Each side with mostly venom for the other.

Or, at least it appears that way from the outside. Torn in two. Very little middle ground.
 
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
All that aside...

How is it that you guys got into this state? So opposed? Conservatives and Liberals.
Each side with mostly venom for the other.

Or, at least it appears that way from the outside. Torn in two. Very little middle ground.
I think a lot of it happened after the cold war. There was plenty of political in-fighting as usual during it, but "we the people" found a lot of common ground back then. From that standpoint the cold war was great for America. Russia was a big, scary, smart, powerful enemy who most of us respected. As a result, even young punks like I was then were very aware of the world situations. (I was 17 in 1985)

I talk to younger people now who don't even know America was ever at odds with Russia, who have heard the term Cold War but can't tell you what it was. I don't mean children, I'm talking 20-somethings. These are people old enough to vote who can't tell you the names of five presidents or point to states on a map without labels. American adults who have never heard of Paul Harvey but can tell you every song on the last Fifty Cent album. They've never heard of Bay of Pigs, can't tell you what country Hitler was from, or what country Normandy beach is on, and look at you with a blank stare when you ask them who Joseph Stalin was, but ask them who won American Idol and they can rattle off the details of the last four seasons. You may think I'm exadurating, and I wish I was.

I hate to sound like the old man shaking his fist about "these kids today", but the willingly stupid doesn't cut off at teens anymore. These people are getting older and having kids themselves. These are the blank faces you see at the Obama rallies cheering for a socialist because they don't have a freaking clue what socialism is. They scare me worse than the USSR ever did. They cling to the grand sounding ideas because they've never bothered to open a book and realize that the changes they scream about have been tried and failed.

That's probably why more people are taking sides, because these same people see me as backwards because I oppose open borders and socialized medicine.

I no longer consider myself a Republican. I'm now simply a Conservative. I think that ideas in America are getting so far separated that we may see a breakup of one or both of the current parties in our lifetime. It's about time for that again I think.

This is getting too long. The short of it is that there is a growing segment of Dems, the far right liberals, who are ready to chunk the Constitution, and a few of us who would rather secede than live like that. The extremes are getting more extreme and the middle is getting more lethargic.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:15 PM
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Thanks South. I appreciate the input.
 
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:28 PM
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Since you're going to be a hardass about it, I will try my best to refrain from "mischaracterinzing" your words in the future.
Perhaps you could explain WTF that actually means.
I'm being a hardass?? Excuse me but I have been nothing but respectful in my postings to you.

You claimed we were in a recession and I provided you with the definition of what a recession really is. I didn't attack your motives nor did I question your intelligence. I simply provided the definition which many people aren't aware of.

Your response was that I had my head in the sand and was claiming that everything is "hunkey dorey".

Since that's not what I had said, your post mischaracterized what I actually did say. That's all mischaracterizing is.
 
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008, 09:07 AM
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Thanks South. I appreciate the input.
Thank you too. Sorry I'm so wordy.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008, 02:30 PM
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Thank you too. Sorry I'm so wordy.
Fine by me. I enjoyed the read.

Personally, I don't think it's the division within the US that hurts it the most, not one party or the other.
 
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