“What if you couldn’t marry the person you love?” - Page 8

asavantage · 01-16-2009, 03:12 PM

Its all interesting stuff. I can assure you we are not outnumbered 9 to 1 here in the UK. Dating sites are approximately 80% men and 20% women, not much difference in bars, and social environments. Heaven on earth it is for ladies in the UK, they can choose any man they want in a bar or club - fact. No wonder an attractive woman walks with her chin high, or nose high. If a man desires the company of a woman, as opposed to being celebate, then its a different ball game altogether. Any attractive woman can find a man in a bar any night of the week - may not be the ideal husband, but it is some company as opposed to what many men in the UK live with, that is no company - lonliness, which most men simply accept and learn to live with - few actaully resolve the actual problem by taking action.

also, I know you meant sex. gratification for cakes or sex or whatever. If a man has sex 10 times a day then good luck to him. Much healthier than swigging beer or eating cakes all day. That amount of sex is only usually available to millionaires, rich Arabs who can have 300 wives, or Royalty. Usually jealous or frigid people are opposed to that, but if they can afford to pay the bills and feed and care for their children, who cares? It's not a sin, it is amongst the best things "life" has to offer.

FocalPoint · 01-16-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asavantage

My uncle (Eric Wandless Renton) was homosexual. It was the 25th anniversary of the day he was Murdered on the 11/01/09. I can assure you the world lost a good man on this day. He was one of the kindest souls you would ever hope to meet. He was a keen chess player, and taught many people to play.

Should gays be able to marry. Of course, people should be free to to anything they want to do in life as long as the do not harm another individual. I am not homosexual, if your thinking that. However I do think that people may need love in this life, and if they can not find love from a suitable women, then some men may adopt some kind of companionship that I admit I do not understand - but that is non of my business. Good luck to them if they are happy. I recently wrote a tribute to Eric which was published in a paper, however I did a full tribute on another site yesterday, which should be available to read soon on the internet - not that anyone would be interested?

I would love to read it! It is rare on these forums to hear about the good people who also happen to be gay. It's unfortunate we don't hear this kind of compassion and love from those who claim a monopoly on it....Thanks for the post...

FocalPoint · 01-16-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Some people want to be single - thats fine. Some people want to be monks or nuns, thats fine, some poeople fight for their country, and live or die

And some people just want to impose their self-righteous views on others, label them and shrivel their spirits. They do this 'for their own good'....and to wag their fingers...it's their own way to self-gratification....

asavantage · 01-16-2009, 03:20 PM

i agree

WhatsLeft · 02-04-2009, 04:27 PM

In looking for records of the very first writings of humankind, we find love poems from Egypt of the most romantic expression between a man and woman longing for their marriage. I mean this is as mushy-gushy as it gets. I have copies in Ancient Egyptian Literature, Volume II: The New Kingdom, by Miriam Lichteim, University of California Press, 1976, pp. 181-193. The date on these poems may be 1500 B.C. Another early example of romantic love anticipating marriage is The Song of Solomon in the Bible, dated to 1000 B.C.

WhatsLeft · 02-05-2009, 08:36 AM

I think one of the most romantic marriages is that of Pocahontas and John Rolfe. Romantic love transcends culture, even if death is risked.

Today, we have a lot of intellectual social engineers -- and that requires making new interpretations of our basic concepts. If marriage is shown as a product of evolution, then new concepts of marital and family relationships can be upheld as a part of the process. In truth, there have been no Gallup Polls from the past demonstrating that the idea of romantic love in marriage is a novel concept. We do have examples of such marriages going back to ancient times and continuing throughout history, and we have examples of harsh economic and social conditions forcing marriages outside of loving relationships. So called experts can pick and choose evidence on marital relationships to assert theories that promote social causes they have in mind.

krahmaan · 01-16-2009, 01:56 PM

Then it goes on to affect our children or the children of others who learn of this. They'll think since they saw a homosexual couple then it's OK, or that is how they were born also. When that's a lie, they've just learned it.

That's how kids learn anyway, by what they see. Not by what we tell them. So right there that homosexual relationship is affecting another (others). It affects the children. Don't you notice a lot more children are growing up with this false idea that they were born homosexual? It is because of this more permissive society.

Kids need discipline at home from their parents -if the parents really love them. If not, then this cruel world will discipline them for them. At that doesn't always work out too well -does it?

**juliensimon** · 01-16-2009, 03:44 PM

I have had so many problems trying to just BE with my wife (I come from France, she lives in Canada) that I can just feel very bad for those people who are truly in love, want to get married and there is a guy they have never met in an office that tell them: "no you can't"

Stupid administration. I hate borders. After all, they are just a bunch of imaginary lines.

So yes, I am for gay and lesbian marriages. I happen to have a few gays and lesbians in my networking group and two of them are married. Well, who cares??

antirem · 01-16-2009, 03:51 PM

Well.. just because you cannot marry the person does not mean you cant love them, live with them, and share your life with them.

krahmaan · 01-16-2009, 08:08 PM

In reply to everything said here since my last post:

What many people seem to forget is the difference between love and lust.

They (even heterosexual couples) must take a look deep in the mirror as ask themselves, "Am I really in love, or am I in lust?" Sex was only meant for reproduction, to be fruitful. Meaning to bare children. Without this goal in mind, then it is lust & lust is sin. Because lust can turn into things like rape, murder, child molestation, disloyalty, and the list goes on...

It is not a sin although to have sex with one's wife or husband with the goal of one day baring children. Sometimes couples may never even bare them, this is also a blessing from God. But He's not a hypocrite to create sex organs for them not to at least try to be fruitful. (Our Father is far from that)

But this is sex in it's natural state. It goes out of it's natural state when people use it just as a form of self gratification or 'high' where it becomes an unbreakable habit. That's why 'over gratification' could turn into rape. Aren't rapists uncontrolled sex addicts? They no longer have any self control of that human impulse, and look what happens. Rapist don't even have to be gay to commit rape, yet some do rape other weaker men in the jail systems too. Aren't those committed out of over indulgence?

Now how do these truths impose my own beliefs on others?

asavantage · 01-17-2009, 12:43 AM

I am not a churchgoer, and this website is not the house of god. it is easy to demonise things in terms of sins. Does not work with me. It is the "lack" of regular sex that would turn someone to rape, not too much sex. A happy man with a healthy relationship with his wife is likely to lead a normal life without becoming a criminal. An unhappy man who has not got a healthy sexual relationship in his life, is likely to live life without becoming a criminal. Most people are good and know the difference between right and wrong, and consensual relations is fine. People who rape are simply "bad" people, who will be punished by the law. They can either become a better person and learn from their mistakes, or stay in jail till we throw away the key.

krahmaan · 01-17-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asavantage

Most people are good and know the difference between right and wrong, and consensual relations is fine. People who rape are simply "bad" people, who will be punished by the law. They can either become a better person and learn from their mistakes, or stay in jail till we throw away the key.

You seem to have a good sense of how most people are or can be. But you unwisely overlook the fact that the people who are not good control most of what happens in this world. That is a known fact, better to not live in a fantasy world thinking that everyone is 'at one' with their good side. This feat take years to a lifetime to accomplish.

There are a lot of sexually active men who out of sudden rejection while on a date with a woman committed the infamous 'date rape'. These men were not deprived of sexual relations yet they could not take rejection so well. So does that mean they were bad men all of their lives? No, it means that over a time period they lost self control of their natural sexual desire creating lust.

Like I said before this is why lust is a sin, no matter in what form. Lust breeds greater evils over time. There are no demons in the creation of a bad habit that will one day get the best of us if not controlled. At least get the best of us one way or another, it doesn't have to be just rape. Some people will even kill out of jealousy, that someone's girlfriend or wife has slept with another man. Lust breeds these uncontrollable actions. Lust (over gratification) is the real demon here.

asavantage · 01-17-2009, 04:01 AM

I disagree. Lust, passion is a great thing. Something to look forward to when you get home from work. Something to inspire you in life to achieve greater things. One has to experience it often to realise this. A man, or women, who has regular "lust" or "sex" becomes accustomed to it, so it becomes quite insignificant, something that is a "so what" event, and eventually, things like the arts, business, and discourse becomes more important, especially as you get older and wiser. To much of anything becomes boring after time - but sex should be enjoyed especially whilst young. Thats why, in the USA, and UK, many attractive women will not give a man a second glance, because they are so bored of men coming on to them - yes the men are desperate, because they are human and they can't get any TLC (tender loving care). Even in California we know men who live there have the so called "eye candy" but try talking to them stunners - you have no chance. In many places in this world, there is a great deal of equality in relation to ratios of men and women. A women can merely go to any bar in the country to find a companion - pick up a man in seconds, but they do not even have to do that if they are half decent looking, because they are so bored with the offers in their social circles. It is a womens world (especially UK and USA). Its a mans world, if you can afford to travel! Go to a bar or club in the UK, and it is always 90% men, and 10 % women 80/20 at best - injustice! Also we are bombarded by pretty women on every advert on tv - all men need a bit of that to feel like men!
Life can be a lot of fun if you can afford to travel

krahmaan · 01-17-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asavantage

I disagree. Lust, passion is a great thing.

My definition of Lust is: uncontrolled sex addiction that can lead to vile things. You yourself must believe in self discipline. You sound to me like a gentleman, and self control is the practice of self discipline. Not all men can display the self control of a gentleman. You must know this to be true, even if we don't fully agree on this topic of same sex marriages. (?)

Do you think that men should display some level of self control, when it comes to sex and other sensual gratifications?

WhatsLeft · 02-04-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asavantage

Thats why, in the USA, and UK, many attractive women will not give a man a second glance, because they are so bored of men coming on to them -

Your posts on this subject seem so strange to me. Maybe, the UK is just that different. In America there is a constant stream of attractive women who constantly come on hot and heavy. It's like a challenge finding ways to let them know to back off.

ceweqsakti · 01-16-2009, 08:14 PM

if it happen to me
i will sleep at home for a week

Atom · 01-16-2009, 08:20 PM

StrongInTheArm · 02-03-2009, 03:36 PM

Muddy! You are a bad man!!! LOL!

John Scott · 02-04-2009, 01:56 AM

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Thank god we have seperation of church and state, otherwise the authorities would still be kiling everyone who doesn't believe in the bible-god like they did in the dark ages.

I would than individualists for separation of Church and state. And instead of going back to the Dark Ages, I would go back to the last century where atheists killed 250 million.

babbelon · 02-04-2009, 03:33 PM

Getting back to the original question of this topic, "What if you couldn't marry the person you love?" Marriage based on romance and love (from the anthropological point of view) is a new idea! For thousands of years it has been accepted by society that men and women were to marry one another and that their marriages were to serve a purpose both to family and society. Marriage for love and/or romance on the other hand is only about 300-400 years old it is a new idea and to tell you my honest logical opinion.. let me say this again LOGICAL OPINION I believe that the old system (however inconvenient to your emotions or ideals it might be) served more of a practical purpose and in many ways it was significantly better than our current system.

My above stated logical opinion does not mean that I am "Anti Love" or that I am not a romantic type. I do enjoy romance and from a romantic or emotional point of view, I personally would rather marry for love than to serve a purpose in my family or society.

The purpose of this post and the above statements was simply to ground those of you who would believe that it is natural for people to marry for love, lust, and emotions for this is not the case. Nor is it unnatural to marry for a purpose such as money, power, inheritance or the likes.

Furthermore and in conclusion, if I or we as a collective whole could not marry the people we love we would be serving the natural purpose of marriage and we would be living (in my logical opinion) a more productive life!