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View Poll Results: Are you for gay marriage?
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:10 PM
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Post “What if you couldn’t marry the person you love?”

I've been seeing this commercial that comes on everyday and I didn't really get it at first. But then I thought about it, and now I do. I usually don't pay too much attention to commercials anyhow, but I though this subject could make for an excellent discussion in the politics forum. I see no one else has posted it yet, so I'll be the one to do so.

This commercial recently showed up on YouTube too. So I wanted to take a poll on how people view the subject of gay marriage. Are you for it, or do you see it as not what the creator actually intended on creating a family? I want everybody here to keep the insults out of this thread, but just voice a mature opinion on this matter -please. Thank you.

 

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Old 08-22-2008, 10:12 PM
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It should be allowed. What's the big deal?
 
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Old 08-22-2008, 10:36 PM
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If your love is deep for that person, the marriage shall be allowed. Of course, it is regulated by the laws of the land.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:08 PM
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The word should be changed for gay couples. This is the controversy. There isn't any reason a civil union shouldn't be acceptable by all sides.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:24 PM
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The individualist point of view is that it is not the government's business to say who can and cannot marry.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
The individualist point of view is that it is not the government's business to say who can and cannot marry.
In the individualist point of view, you can marry anyone you like any way that you like. You can live someone and call them your mate. You can live with one another. This has always been so, except for some states that have actually put over extending government authority laws on the books about people having sex without being legally married under the states views, or living together without being married, these are very few, and as far as I know never actually enforced or at least very very rarely.

Fact is though, you can claim anyone you want as a mate, you can live with your mate. What you can't do is have it recognized by the state, or other state agencies unless you go through the legal method of marriage.

What does that mean? Means that you can have a will and leave all of your estate to your mate if you wish. However your mate will not receive any government or Social Security benefits on your behalf as you were never recognized by the government as legally married.

You can make a living will vesting decisional authority to your mate legally. Without the living will though the decision will fall to the legal next of kin. This also is an independant choice that can be made by the hospital if it is a private hospital and in the event your mate disputes their position without the will they will have no legal standing.

So you can in actuality marry anyone you like. That's not the question, the question is, does the state see it as a legal union? A completely different subject.
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Old 08-23-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
I've been seeing this commercial that comes on everyday and I didn't really get it at first. But then I thought about it, and now I do. I usually don't pay too much attention to commercials anyhow, but I though this subject could make for an excellent discussion in the politics forum. I see no one else has posted it yet, so I'll be the one to do so.

This commercial recently showed up on YouTube too. So I wanted to take a poll on how people view the subject of gay marriage. Are you for it, or do you see it as not what the creator actually intended on creating a family? I want everybody here to keep the insults out of this thread, but just voice a mature opinion on this matter -please. Thank you.

This is a double question really and so I will give it two answers

Firstly, I have nothing against gay marriages and if people want to do that then so be it.

Secondly, as for it being not what the creator intended on creating a family.... Well, Gay couples can't actually 'create' a family per say, so I guess no, it isn't what 'the creator' intended, though they can adopt or can be artificially inseminated so that a woman can give birth..
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
In the individualist point of view, you can marry anyone you like any way that you like. You can live someone and call them your mate. You can live with one another. This has always been so, except for some states that have actually put over extending government authority laws on the books about people having sex without being legally married under the states views, or living together without being married, these are very few, and as far as I know never actually enforced or at least very very rarely.

Fact is though, you can claim anyone you want as a mate, you can live with your mate. What you can't do is have it recognized by the state, or other state agencies unless you go through the legal method of marriage.

What does that mean? Means that you can have a will and leave all of your estate to your mate if you wish. However your mate will not receive any government or Social Security benefits on your behalf as you were never recognized by the government as legally married.

You can make a living will vesting decisional authority to your mate legally. Without the living will though the decision will fall to the legal next of kin. This also is an independant choice that can be made by the hospital if it is a private hospital and in the event your mate disputes their position without the will they will have no legal standing.

So you can in actuality marry anyone you like. That's not the question, the question is, does the state see it as a legal union? A completely different subject.
I like how thegamerslink put that. I also like how everyone here has made a mature argument thus far. Thank you all.

There's is more I'd like to add to this though. The only thing I didn't like about most on the replies here was that only one of you owned up to your opinion -G10 there. He's the only one who used the word 'I' ...

So let me add that I think the subject of gay marriage or even being gay has a lot of confusion surrounding it. There are many people who say that they were born gay. This I can not agree with or believe. From my knowledge there's not even a shred of scientific proof that people are born this way. I believe people make this choice. That's the first part of the confusion. Though it may be their choice and they are so entitled to make this choice it is against nature.

Look around, there are no animals mating of the same sex nor are there any insects. Mating season has and always be a time to reproduce. So I believe if someone makes this choice in life to be homosexual they must bare the consequences. It has to do with owning up to our choices I think. Everyone likes not to be held accountable for what they do, but like everyone knows your choices create consequences.

There is no way for a gay couple to reproduce in the natural sense of how they too came into this world. And even those with sex changes cannot use their new genitalia in the natural form in which they were at birth. It is a confusion for one to believe they were not born with that genitalia to alter it.

The math is simple, and the science is simple. That's why I feel that once someone makes this free choice, the must bare the consequences even if they couldn't marry the one they've grown attached to.
 
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
So let me add that I think the subject of gay marriage or even being gay has a lot of confusion surrounding it. There are many people who say that they were born gay. This I can not agree with or believe. From my knowledge there's not even a shred of scientific proof that people are born this way. I believe people make this choice. That's the first part of the confusion. Though it may be their choice and they are so entitled to make this choice it is against nature.
Actually there have been several scientific and psychological studies done on that very subject. And there is scientific as well as psychiatric proof that homosexuality is not in all cases a choice. There are subtle differences between male and female brains when it comes to size and distribution. And there are documented instances of homosexual males having the same traits as a female in certain areas of the brain. And vice versa with female lesbians having similar traits to the male brain.

Then you have have the instances when infants are born with both sexual organs, some don't even know it till late in life. So there is actually scientific basis for homosexuality.

I will agree though as will most people, there are several people that do make an active choice to be gay. And then there are others that simply have no choice.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:42 PM
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One of the more recent studies done. It is using MRI and PET scans by Stockholm Brain Institute in Sweden.

http://www.physorg.com/news132842073.html

There are several other studies and college reports done out there, I figured I would pick a more recent one. The actual studies in similar areas have been going on since the 1930's. The most publicized was in 1991 by a San Francisco neuroanatomist Simon LeVay.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:43 PM
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Oh, and by the way, there have been studies that even included Rams that show sexual preference to other Rams instead of Ewes so Homosapiens aren't the only animal that displays this type of sexual behavior.
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:58 PM
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Absolutely oppose gay marriage or any union which would provide state recognition.

Let me clarify that I mean my state. What other states do doesn't concern me so long as provisions are in place to stop mandated recognition of unions performed in other states.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
One of the more recent studies done. It is using MRI and PET scans by Stockholm Brain Institute in Sweden.

http://www.physorg.com/news132842073.html

There are several other studies and college reports done out there, I figured I would pick a more recent one. The actual studies in similar areas have been going on since the 1930's. The most publicized was in 1991 by a San Francisco neuroanatomist Simon LeVay.
Yes, science loves to claim it has the answers to most things. But still there is a very limited scope on knowledge of the brain. Leaving a huge margin for error. If we were to cut open someones brain and start to experiment on it, one small mistake could leave that person dead or a vegetable. Would you risk that type of experiment on your brain? I know I wouldn't, not even to save my own life. So, with the brain science cannot adequately state to have competent knowledge of the all the brain's workings.

If science could, then it would know the workings of psychic phenomenon, as well as near death experiences, spiritual healing, etc. No, science could not have this info because there are aspects of the brain that I feel link to the soul. Known science becomes useless in those realms of thought. Of course a scientist could say "well we researched this brain wave, and that wave -so we've come to a conclusion that this or that is true." But like you said, it may only work in specific or different persons. So where's the proof? If it were definitive proof, it would prove true in all subject findings.

I love science, but I think man needs to know his limits. When man thinks he can play God and do whatever he wants, this is where a lot of confusion falls in -I think. This is also where he thinks he not to be held accountable for his actions.

Even if someone was to be born with two opposite sets of genitalia, that won't make them gay. Most times only one of the set works properly. For them, I think they're would be the only exception to choose which sex to be. But then still reproduction would work in the natural scope. If they only kept the vagina, then they would be impregnated by a man. If they kept the penis, then they would inseminate a woman.

Even if you look at it with every angle possible, most people choosing to be gay only have one set.
 
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:20 PM
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Interesting points krahmaan and I totally understand where you are coming from with the science aspect as I agree, science really doesn't have the answers that it likes to portray itself to have and sometimes likes to fill in the blanks with assumptions.

That said, you realise that there are hormones in the water that have been and still are altering the sex of certain fish.

Ok, that may sound like nonsense and what hormone could do that?..... It has a lot to do with what the pharmaceuticals made when making 'The Pill' for women, you see this gets excreted back into the water supply and may make some interesting research for some folk.

I can't comment on whether or not it is a condition or not just yet as I have not researched that aspect enough but I can see how it could be, given what it has done to certain fish's sexual organs.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by South View Post
Absolutely oppose gay marriage or any union which would provide state recognition.

Let me clarify that I mean my state. What other states do doesn't concern me so long as provisions are in place to stop mandated recognition of unions performed in other states.
Conservative collectivism. You don't - or shouldn't - have any right to tell others who they can or cannot marry.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:16 AM
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I don't have a dog in this fight.

I'm straight, have said "no" to the women that asked...

But.... seems to me they have the same "right" to make a huge mistake & be miserable as the rest of us.

Wonder how a gay divorce will play out on "DIVORCE COURT".
 
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:28 AM
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Krahmaan -
Quote:
From my knowledge there's not even a shred of scientific proof that people are born this way.
I was responding to the above statement. I wasn't suggesting that the studies were absolute proof there is a biological reason for homosexuality. Science is rarely if ever absolute.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:14 AM
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wow all these conservatives are supporting gay marriage? I thought this thread would be against it since this community is heavily right wing.
 
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:36 AM
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wow all these conservatives are supporting gay marriage? I thought this thread would be against it since this community is heavily right wing.
Heavily right wing? Where do you get that? We got left wing nutcases up the wazoo here.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:51 AM
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I didn't know the standard conservative position was to oppose gay union? The principle stand I thought was that marriage was something that was religious and between a man and a woman, but mates and unions were not, last I checked, inclusive to that.

Conservatives or at least me as a conservative supports individuals rights. Liberals tend to believe I have found that the state should have more of an overall say over the individual. Am I wrong?
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