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Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2008, 11:35 AM
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The $700 billion buyout is not going to Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Sun Microsystems, Microsoft, Coca Cola, or any countless other business traded on the stock market but they certainly do not make the same revenues because of this economy. There is a problem somewhere that need to be fixed, and patching the market with hundred billions will not fix the fundamental problem.

So there is a link, let tell you my personal opinion. Perhaps I may be wrong because I am just a little French emmigrant who is interested in the US politic.

How the US Securities and Exchange Commission can let financial banks doubling some accounts?

How loans that either could not or would not get paid back may be authorized?

We cannot let a wild/jungle market regulate themself, see how it works... I think it would be smarter to make some new rules before it is getting worse.

I just read this interwiew from Ron Paul, very interesting:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/...out/index.html
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
If you tie it to gold-only standard.
Which is why I say "figuratively".
A face value currency still needs to be backed by something. I used gold as the example because it's something people are more familiar with as a trade item.
If I'd said something like "cobalt reserves", people would have just wondered what the hell I was talking about, even though it's one of the major metals of pretty much any manufacturing industry you care to name.

A fiat-currency is only backed by the government saying that the currency is a good representation of debt-owing/asset-owning.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
... should we kidnap Ron Paul and create our own nation?
I got this via email:
Quote:
Dear Friends,

Whenever a Great Bipartisan Consensus is announced, and a compliant media assures everyone that the wondrous actions of our wise leaders are being taken for our own good, you can know with absolute certainty that disaster is about to strike.

The events of the past week are no exception.

The bailout package that is about to be rammed down Congress' throat is not just economically foolish. It is downright sinister. It makes a mockery of our Constitution, which our leaders should never again bother pretending is still in effect. It promises the American people a never-ending nightmare of ever-greater debt liabilities they will have to shoulder. Two weeks ago, financial analyst Jim Rogers said the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made America more communist than China! "This is welfare for the rich," he said. "This is socialism for the rich. It's bailing out the financiers, the banks, the Wall Streeters."

That describes the current bailout package to a T. And we're being told it's unavoidable.

The claim that the market caused all this is so staggeringly foolish that only politicians and the media could pretend to believe it. But that has become the conventional wisdom, with the desired result that those responsible for the credit bubble and its predictable consequences - predictable, that is, to those who understand sound, Austrian economics - are being let off the hook. The Federal Reserve System is actually positioning itself as the savior, rather than the culprit, in this mess!

The Treasury Secretary is authorized to purchase up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets at any one time. That means $700 billion is only the very beginning of what will hit us.

Financial institutions are "designated as financial agents of the Government." This is the New Deal to end all New Deals.

Then there's this: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." Translation: the Secretary can buy up whatever junk debt he wants to, burden the American people with it, and be subject to no one in the process.

There goes your country.

Even some so-called free-market economists are calling all this "sadly necessary." Sad, yes. Necessary? Don't make me laugh.

Our one-party system is complicit in yet another crime against the American people. The two major party candidates for president themselves initially indicated their strong support for bailouts of this kind - another example of the big choice we're supposedly presented with this November: yes or yes. Now, with a backlash brewing, they're not quite sure what their views are. A sad display, really.

Although the present bailout package is almost certainly not the end of the political atrocities we'll witness in connection with the crisis, time is short. Congress may vote as soon as tomorrow. With a Rasmussen poll finding support for the bailout at an anemic seven percent, some members of Congress are afraid to vote for it. Call them! Let them hear from you! Tell them you will never vote for anyone who supports this atrocity.

The issue boils down to this: do we care about freedom? Do we care about responsibility and accountability? Do we care that our government and media have been bought and paid for? Do we care that average Americans are about to be looted in order to subsidize the fattest of cats on Wall Street and in government? Do we care?

When the chips are down, will we stand up and fight, even if it means standing up against every stripe of fashionable opinion in politics and the
media?

Times like these have a way of telling us what kind of a people we are, and what kind of country we shall be.

In liberty,

Ron Paul
I'm guessing from the fragments he quoted from the bill that this has all the makings of the overreach found in the original Patriot Act.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 08:32 PM
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no one takes responsibility for their own actions anymore
 
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 03:56 AM
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I think we can be pretty sure that this bailout isn't a symptom of socialism - even the staunchest commie would have trouble arguing that the government buying up trunkfulls of toxic debt is a grand piece of nationalisation. And the plan/theory/hope is that when this 'toxic debt' is removed from the credit system, it should help loosen things up, to the point where these banks can buy it back later. So again according to the theory, it will end up costing around half of the 700 billion in actuality, i.e. it isn't all money flushed down the toilet.

So, it isn't socialist, that's for sure, and as for the rest of it, you can only hope.

Regarding all the autonomy for Paulson, that's definitely bad news.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 08:50 AM
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and so begins the fulfillment of communist manifesto principle number 5. may the marxist of the world jump for joy.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 05:14 PM
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Guys the Republicans are going to screw us all, how can you want four to eight more years of the same crap we've already had.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Michealstork View Post
Guys the Republicans are going to screw us all, how can you want four to eight more years of the same crap we've already had.
please enlighten us with your reasoning.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2008, 08:41 AM
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the only reason for the bailout was b/c mccain put a 150 billion dollar tax break bill on top of it
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Michealstork View Post
the only reason for the bailout was b/c mccain put a 150 billion dollar tax break bill on top of it
Back up the statements with fact or quit posting them
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2008, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post

So, it isn't socialist, that's for sure, and as for the rest of it, you can only hope.
Of course socializing debt is socialist. Just like socializing medicine is socialist.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 02:30 AM
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No, I mean it's not being done because "America is more communist than China" - it's not socialist in that sense.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2008, 03:59 PM
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Three weeks after an $85 billion bailout, AIG is turning to the New York Fed for additional funding.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/08/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
Of course socializing debt is socialist. Just like socializing medicine is socialist.
God Almighty, have we learned nothing from the problems associated with medicare, medicade, and Social Security?

Years ago I was giving a talk at a trade show, and I ran into a guy who looked and sounded a lot like Dauber from "Coach" the TV series. His voice was pretty horse, and he explained to me that it got that way from years of trading on the floor of the exchange. All the yelling, etc. He explained about how he left that line of work because, aside from his voice it nearly killed him at 30 with a heart attack.

We were talking business plans. He told me that when he looks at a business plan the first thing he does is asks himself, "has it been done before?" If it has, he told me "did it fail" or "did it succeed?" If it failed, he said that plan will always fail. He said there is nothing you can do to do it better, nothing you can fix. Some things are just destined to fail.

I guess with most everything in life is made up of failures and successes, not fixes or patches.

I've seen the business plan that is social entitlement, and it does not work. It fails every time. A new entitlement plan will most certainly fail again.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:49 AM
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No, I mean it's not being done because "America is more communist than China" - it's not socialist in that sense.
I'm glad you corrected yourself there, Rank.
I was beginning to think someone had hacked your account.

And I take issue with your statement about China.
It certainly is socialist (read:fascist).
The bailout was eventually passed, regardless of the people's will.
For a short while, some politicians were actually voting, based on their constituents' desire but that faded quickly enough, once the proper amount of sweeteners were added to the bill.

How ridiculous is that? The US is in major financial peril. A supposed fix is created.
To get that fix passed, tax cuts, funded by tax increases are added to the bill which is supposed to save the USA from financial disaster. It would be funny if it weren't reality.
I don't think this is the last cheque that's going to be asked for, either.
 
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 10:08 AM
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Thought this might be pertinent.

US debt clock runs out of digits: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7660409.stm

Quote:
The digital counter marks the national debt level, but when that passed the $10 trillion point last month, the sign could not display the full amount.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2008, 12:09 PM
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i think 700 billion is a try to make a better & stable situation. but i think it doing nothing more infront of big wave !
 
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