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Old 11-14-2013, 08:47 AM
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Is using images on your site that you didn't take... ever ok?

Ok, I got in a bit of a pissing contest with a coupla content scrapers over at yahoo answers... Wondering what some of my fellow photogs might have to say about the points raised...

Incidentally, if anyone would care to weigh in over there... That could help too...

Quote:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3063735AApPC7S
I have a website and I write information about places and post pictures. The places I do are abandoned and the pictures are taken by people who are TRESPASSING into these places. Now I find this guys images on the 28dayslater forum, I can easily right click and save them, I used 4 of his images and then some others people, they all get sourced by name at the bottom. I am not selling there images and am using them in an informative and educational way. Now this dude e-mails me and could have just asked me to take his images down, which I would have done, but instead he says he is gonna sue me if I don't take them down. Well now he is located in Europe and I am in America. So my question is, can he do this? He is the one putting his images out there without copyright logos on them, without prohibiting downloading etc.

Edit:
Please visit the link before responding...

Last edited by stone; 11-14-2013 at 09:13 AM.
 
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:05 AM
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Firstly, I'm not a Lawyer. This is all IMO - legally there may and probably will be many more stipulations to consider, and in this case I will assume you are not making any money from usage or reselling etc.

Can you use images that are not yours? Yes and no.

Are they from a free image bank? If yes, and you follow usage agreements, sure.

If you purchase them and use according to image usage - yes.

If you find an image and use it on your own site while making sure to cite the author/source, probably yes.

If you use that image and cite the author/source, and they ask you to take them down, you have to oblige.

If you take and use an image from a source that has probably taken that image from another source without authority, you are still using someone else's image. So I'd say no, you can't use it.

Can this dude ask you to take it down? Yes. Do you have to comply with someone that took an image without authorization, probably no. Do you want to risk being found out by the originator of the image?

Someone has to have owned/created the original at sometime in the past. Can a person who found that image claim ownership? Well, they can certainly try.

If I've not addressed your question properly, I'd suggest visiting a legal site where you can get some free or low-cost advice. Image usage on the internet is nuts these days. Just search for Getty images and see what they're doing out there with those illegally using their images.
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Last edited by LMD; 11-14-2013 at 09:11 AM.
 
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMD View Post
If I've not addressed your question properly, I'd suggest visiting a legal site where you can get some free or low-cost advice.
It wasn't my question.
Please visit the link.
Thanks,
stone
 
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:43 AM
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I hope I've offered some insight in terms of image usage, but unfortunately don't have the time to follow/research further threads to get at the root of the issue. I'm sure you understand. Someone else will probably chime-in.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Just search for Getty images and see what they're doing out there with those illegally using their images.
Do you have a link?
I did the search... Couldn't find anything.
https://www.google.com/search?q=news...g+Getty+images
 
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:03 AM
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There are a few found in the link below - but mostly you will find commentary on forums from people that have been "served" by Getty with their strong-armed tactics aimed at scaring people into paying huge sums of money.

https://www.google.com/search?q=news...images+lawsuit
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:10 AM
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Getty Images has teamed up with Pinterest to catch thieves:
Quote:
Getty Images is one of the industry’s best and broadest collections of imagery created by a community of hundreds of thousands of contributors. Their collection not only includes great images but also data about each image. This can include who took the image, when, where, and what’s in the picture. We think this will be really valuable, especially when pin descriptions and links are as not as helpful as we’d hope.
New data to help improve Pinterest

They are also in partnership with Flickr: Help / FAQ / Getty Images

One of the pictures on the OP's site that asked the question that I checked is from Flickr and the owner of the picture has All Rights Reserved on it's page.

If the person who asked the question thinks because the owner of the picture who requested its removal is in Europe and has no hope in hell of getting it removed, they are sadly mistaken. All the owner of the picture has to do is issue a Cease and Desist to them w/ cc to their web hosting. Their site (the person objecting to removing the image) is hosted on an American server therefore the DMCA is in play.

Life would be much less complicated if one just asked permission to use an image. The photographer would probably be flattered.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post

Life would be much less complicated if one just asked permission to use an image. The photographer would probably be flattered.
I couldn't agree more and I'd bet some wars could be negated this way too. Not that there's any wars being started over photography. Too bad there isn't an "I agree" button to click, because now it looks like I'm posting for count.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
If the person who asked the question thinks because the owner of the picture who requested its removal is in Europe and has no hope in hell of getting it removed, they are sadly mistaken. All the owner of the picture has to do is issue a Cease and Desist to them w/ cc to their web hosting. Their site (the person objecting to removing the image) is hosted on an American server therefore the DMCA is in play.

Life would be much less complicated if one just asked permission to use an image. The photographer would probably be flattered.
I think... by how the responses went... that using the images without permission may be the point.

Appreciate the links... skimmed the articles this morning, will devote additional time to reading at length this evening...

I've also contacted the forum being scraped...

These thieves defending their theft by claiming that nothing can be done, and by insisting that photography is easy, and therefore of no value... Have given me a bad taste in my mouth... I'm willing to put some effort into this...

Get ripped off enough, you start to take it personal... And I've run into that attitude before.
 
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:57 PM
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Stone. Using images is legal with citation. Your response on that thread was wrong. Free use was correct.
I believe the answers above are also confirming this.
The site owner is citing all photographers. How are they thieves?
 
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMLBasicTutor View Post
Getty Images has teamed up with Pinterest to catch thieves:

New data to help improve Pinterest

They are also in partnership with Flickr: Help / FAQ / Getty Images

One of the pictures on the OP's site that asked the question that I checked is from Flickr and the owner of the picture has All Rights Reserved on it's page.

If the person who asked the question thinks because the owner of the picture who requested its removal is in Europe and has no hope in hell of getting it removed, they are sadly mistaken. All the owner of the picture has to do is issue a Cease and Desist to them w/ cc to their web hosting. Their site (the person objecting to removing the image) is hosted on an American server therefore the DMCA is in play.

Life would be much less complicated if one just asked permission to use an image. The photographer would probably be flattered.


The site owner actually does ask the photographers, where many of them actually submit their images to them. The ones who cannot be contacted are the ones who are simply credited without exact permission hence free use.

DMCA is US, not EU, therefore no relation.

The images requested to be taken down are all taken down, hence the "request removal" at the bottom of the site mentioned.

I do not own the site but I know the site owner, and Stone seems to be posting forums about this all over the internet because he's raging. No true knowledge in any field.
 
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:30 PM
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I would also like to add, since I myself cite fantasy and science fiction artists without their permission since this is nearly impossible unless you are looking to commission with them: the DMCA is ruled out in the case of fair use = educational content, among other things.

The site mentioned in this thread and also on the yahoo answers thread is purely educational. There is a complete history of the buildings being used = fair use.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
Quote:
"Lenz v. Universal Music Corp.
In 2007, Stephanie Lenz, a writer and editor from Gallitzin, Pennsylvania made a home video of her 13-month-old son dancing to "Let's Go Crazy" and posted a 29-second video on the video-sharing site YouTube.

Four months after the video was originally uploaded, Universal Music Group, which owned the copyrights to the song, ordered YouTube to remove the video enforcing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Lenz notified YouTube immediately that her video was within the scope of fair use, and demanded that it be restored. YouTube complied after six weeks—not two weeks, as required by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act—to see whether Universal planned to sue Lenz for infringement.

Lenz then sued Universal Music in California for her legal costs, claiming the music company had acted in bad faith by ordering removal of a video that represented fair use of the song.

In August 2008, U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel of San Jose, California ruled that copyright holders cannot order a deletion of an online file without determining whether that posting reflected "fair use" of the copyrighted material.

On February 25, 2010, Judge Fogel issued a ruling rejecting several of Universal's affirmative defenses, including the defense that Lenz suffered no damages"
As you can see, I have cited and quoted wikipedia = fair use for educational purposes. I have no need to contact wikipedia because this is legal, hence the law of fair use.

When the owner of the site at hand is posting educational information about all photographs, where they are finally citing all photographers at the end, there is no violation of any law in this field.

IF and ONLY IF they had a website that had nothing worth information, they were posting art as though it was their own, and there were no cites.. yeah.. duh... no one would enjoy that.

Stone.. get your facts straight. We can see every thread that you create because of backlinks. You are only driving more traffic to the website you are so against right now. All that you are doing is benefiting the website.

Most of all.. none of the images used are your poor plant photographs.

Sorry to the mods and owners of v7n.com, I don't mean to stir any argument in a thread, I'm just stating the truth and the obvious. I think it's a little ridiculous to create threads throughout the internet about a yahoo answers question for why you really just don't agree.

Last edited by HTMLBasicTutor; 11-15-2013 at 02:40 PM. Reason: merged duplicate posts, added quote tags
 
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelackof View Post
DMCA is US, not EU, therefore no relation.
Ya think so? Maybe you would like to ask the foreigners who stole my content and hosted their site on a server that was located on American soil.
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Old 11-15-2013, 03:02 PM
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I never understand the confusion that surrounds all of this. For me, it is very simple. If it is not yours and you do not have permission to use it, don't. It's called character. As Basic mentioned, even if you manage to escape the long arm of the law, the owner of the images can make someone's life miserable when they go after your web hosting company and start filing reports with the major search engines.
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
For me, it is very simple. If it is not yours and you do not have permission to use it, don't.
Much easier to get permission before using that great picture...
then to try proving that nobody can stop you from using anything that you can scrape off the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelackof View Post
The site owner actually does ask the photographers, where many of them actually submit their images to them.
I don't remember Eve mentioning that... Her complaint was that someone told her to remove a picture.

Yahoo answers took that thread down.

I was going to report both pages to facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/AbandonedPlaygrounds
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Devil...1324?ref=br_rs

Would it do any good without the evidence of that thread?


.....

It might seem like I'm making a big deal over a few pictures that weren't even mine...

And truly, what does a couple pictures matter?

Here's the thing...
Mathew... "thelackof" "Manic", Seems to be able to justify stealing by insisting that other people's efforts have no value.

How soon before he moves from stealing a few pictures to stealing your oeuvre... and then insists that years of your work has no value...

Happened to me.

Last edited by stone; 11-15-2013 at 04:42 PM.
 
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:46 PM
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Stone.. your address is easily accessible, what is your justification of posting someones information on threads across the internet, including yahoo answers?

Manic is an old term, thelackof is a random usage and Mathew isn't even how my name is spelt. Either way, there's no harm done in consistently attempting to share someones personal information online.

I could easily post your home address to somewhere like 4chan with a picture of your face and see how far that gets you. But I wouldn't because it's just dumb.

Just drop the subject and get a life. Your yahoo answers says you've been gardening for over 20 years... so you're probably some 40 year old at least who's ranting on the internet = teenage drama.

You have nothing to prove and your opinion is pointless. You obviously have nothing better to do.

Yes I own Devil On a Dinosaur, so what. Are you going to contact rich artists who NEVER care that they're images are shared when asked?

I don't ask them all, because again, it is impossible. But the ones I do ask have seriously no care. So less of a care that it always seems pointless to even ask in the first place.

Why? Because art = artistic merit.

Taking a picture of a building is stupid.
I enjoy photography but wow, it's not some amazing thing.

Again, as I said on yahoo answers, did you build the building that you took a picture of?
Or did mother nature tell you that you could take photos of her plants?

Is Earth copyrighted?

You're just another human abusing the right to be stupid. You have absolutely no moral value and nothing to contribute, as I've said before.

the only thing you offer is personal information, which lacks really any merit, and crappy rants about 'content scrapers.'

A content scraper doesn't source the photographers.

The articles on AP don't even talk about the pictures.. they talk about the location, about the place, about the history of the building.. which grabs a LOT of attention from many who send personal emails claiming to appreciate this.. not to mention the comments and the increasing followers.

It's not about the photographs.. it's about the location.

Just as Devil On a Dinosaur, my website, is not about the artist... it's about the art. and many can appreciate this.

As a child, I didn't browse through fantasy art books saying to myself 'wow, Boris Vallejo is the man!'

instead I said to myself 'wow look at this art!! this is wild!"

Your photography isn't even used in this subject stone.. so drop the damned subject and get on with yourself.
 
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:58 PM
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In this community we value different opinions HOWEVER we treat EVERYONE with respect.
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