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Old 11-10-2003, 03:39 PM
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Firebird?

Anyone here use Firebird?
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/


Do you like it, and why?



I would use it full time except it displays javascript a little differently.
 
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Old 11-10-2003, 03:56 PM
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I've never seen a problem with js and firebird. It's the best browser on the market IMO right now.
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Old 11-10-2003, 03:59 PM
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Visit Yahoo.com in IE, then do it in Firebird...the menu changes, because the browser doesnt support it.
 
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Old 11-10-2003, 04:03 PM
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No it's because the Yahoo doesn't use standard code.
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Old 11-11-2003, 06:25 AM
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I used Firebird 0.5 for a while on XP Windows, but it kept crashing.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 06:37 AM
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IE has always been very forgiving of inaccurate code, and displays things as they are clearly meant to be rather than as they are technically written. It's a big plus for IE. Netscape was never forgiving and, presumably, neither is Firebird.

I am confident that none of the small browsers will catch on. I imagine that some Netscape loyalists have gone over to Firebird, Mozilla and Opera but, hopefully, those browsers will never become big enough to have to cater for. When Netscape had a significant share of the market, we had to cater for 2 browsers that often displayed things differently, but now we don't have to and, hopefully, we will never have to do it again.

It doesn't matter how good a browser is. What matters is that we don't have browsers displaying things differently. We should never again need to even use the phrase "cross-browser". If small browser, like Firebird, want to get anywhere they should become IE compliant.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 07:34 AM
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Been using Firebird .07 on XP, and love it. Especially since it displays code correctly Big improvement over the outdated IE.
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Old 11-11-2003, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilC
IE has always been very forgiving of inaccurate code, and displays things as they are clearly meant to be rather than as they are technically written. It's a big plus for IE. Netscape was never forgiving and, presumably, neither is Firebird.

I am confident that none of the small browsers will catch on. I imagine that some Netscape loyalists have gone over to Firebird, Mozilla and Opera but, hopefully, those browsers will never become big enough to have to cater for. When Netscape had a significant share of the market, we had to cater for 2 browsers that often displayed things differently, but now we don't have to and, hopefully, we will never have to do it again.

It doesn't matter how good a browser is. What matters is that we don't have browsers displaying things differently. We should never again need to even use the phrase "cross-browser". If small browser, like Firebird, want to get anywhere they should become IE compliant.
You're joking, right? The W3C should be deciding what is and is not correct practice for writing code - not Microsoft. Firebird displays web standards such as CSS2.1 almost perfectly, while IE screws everything up. Trying to use the set standards for web development and coding for IE support is a battle in and of itself. Mozilla/Firebird do what they are supposed to while IE screws everything up.

The W3C was created to advanced the Internet, and it is IE that should standardize to the W3C's way of doing things. Not the other way around.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 08:28 AM
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No I'm not joking. For years we had the pain of having to make pages that were compatible with both IE and NS - even when NS went off on a bit of a tangent with NS4. Now we only need to cater for IE - one browser - and that's the way it should stay. I don't care which browser it is as long as it's just one browser OR all browsers comply.

The problem with W3C is that they are always too out of date. Both NS and IE were adding good stuff to their browsers that were beyond what W3C had decided. Waiting for them to get up to date has never worked properly. So my conclusion is that IE is the standard and other browsers should comply or not expect to be catered for by web diesigners.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 08:58 AM
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My general consensus is that if they can't be bothered to make the website nicely compatible in all browsers then it is generally not worth my attention. There are a few exceptions but this is my general idea.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 10:00 AM
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I use firebird and I love it, besides the fact that it is slow.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardesign
My general consensus is that if they can't be bothered to make it nicely compatible in all browsers then it is generally not worth my attention. There are a few exceptions but this is my general idea.
Can't be bothered to make what compatible?
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 10:54 AM
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PhilC I agree the W3C are always behind, and the new developments in browser technology and they way we use it always leads.

But there is no way IE's forgiving error correction can have helped progression of features, or the web at all.

Firebird is doing the right thing by supporting standards, IE need to get their act together and OVERHAUL the browser engine because the are crap at keeping up. The are fast to think of new things, but don't keep up with the rest.

If IE would have made people code correctly from the beginning then we would not be in such a mess now, and 'standard code validation'' would not be such a culture shock.

IE's forgiving-ness of sloppy code was nothing to do with its popularity. If it was strict then coders would have coded properly and users wouldn't have known any difference.

Yes NN4 'went off on one' but we learned from this that something is needed to tie us all together - the W3C.

The W3C are trying to make it the way you want it - all working the same. And there's no way I would put Microsoft in charge instead of the W3C.
Can you imagine other browsers trying to do things the way Microsoft way? Or Microsoft helping the smaller browser makers? Or microsoft doing things for the common good rather than personal gain?
I think not, there's no way in hell that I'd want to give Microsoft monopoly of the web browser market, if every one used IE to browse the Web, imagine the control they could have and WOULD ake advantage of, imagine the security holes and the slow-down on Web progression!

my 2 cents
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Old 11-11-2003, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardesign
My general consensus is that if they can't be bothered to make the website nicely compatible in all browsers then it is generally not worth my attention. There are a few exceptions but this is my general idea.
Changed it now
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 11:21 AM
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Yeah working to get pages working cross-browser is a horrid task that we shouldn't have to do.

Can you really afford to ignore the other browsers though?
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Old 11-11-2003, 11:29 AM
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LJ, I don't mind who controls browsers. W3C are too slow to be any good. A few people don't like MS, but the fact that we are here is down to MS - in doing an excellent job for himself, Bill Gates did an excellent job for us. The one thing that musn't happen again is that we need to think of the words "cross-browser support". It doesn't matter to me who creates the browser as long as we have only one browser to cater for. If other little browsers want to hang around, it's fine as long as they are compatible with the main browser.

CD, you'd better not visit any of my sites because there's no way in the world that I'm going to modify them to take account of the very small percentage of people who use small browsers. I don't think you were around when we had to accommodate IE and NS. I can tell that it's a real pain and should never happen again. You can use whatever small browser you like, but don't expect the majority of websites to support it for you, because they don't.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 12:33 PM
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Except of course, for the fact that CSS-P, one of the standards of web creation and the successor of tabular design, isn't fully supported?

CSS-P has been a working standard since late 2000, yet Microsoft has done nothing to fully support said standard in that time. Doesn't this just go to show the lack of Microsoft's interest in continuing to further web design technology? Doesn't this also go to show that companies like Opera and Mozilla, who fully support CSS-P, obviously care about web designers? Certainly seems so to me.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 12:39 PM
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PhilC from the websites of yours that I have seen they work fine in Mozilla 1.5 at least so perhaps you have already worked on cross-browser support?
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 03:15 PM
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If you code things correctly, it might not be vaild, without any shortcuts usually the site will look pretty much the same in any up-to-date browser.
 
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Old 11-11-2003, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardesign
PhilC from the websites of yours that I have seen they work fine in Mozilla 1.5 at least so perhaps you have already worked on cross-browser support?
Nope
 
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