Who do you want to win? - Page 3

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 10:47 AM

Good Lord. God didn't write the bible and nowhere does it say that it was written by him at all. It is the views of men. In fact, for the most part it is the views of men hired by Constantine in the 7th century to create a doctrine that he could use to pull his empire together.

Now Doc, before you start calling me morally wrong and threatening me with hellfire and brimstone, I've read the bible twice. Cover to cover, once when I was younger, which is the original reason that I lost my faith in it, then I read it again after doing some more research, and that is when I discovered the complete absurdity of it.

If you read the bible and look at the old testament as a fairy tale written to teach kids a set of ground rules to live a normal life in a civil society, that is fantastic. This is what I do. However what you are doing is absurd. You are condemning people based on their beliefs. If you'd read the bible and actually comprehended it, you'd realize that you right now, are just as bad as everyone else.

docquesting · 10-04-2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiral

. If you'd read the bible and actually stuck to it, you'd realize that you right now, are just as bad as everyone else.

Yes I have read the Bible through more than twice. From about 4 years ago I have been reading it through every year. And I have already mentioned in this forum that we are all sinners and and that I would be wrong in judging others. And yes I am no better than any of you. But when it comes to the Bible and what God says is right we had better watch out. Beleiving in the Word of God makes more since than beleiving in nothing or in evolution and that we came from apes. Bottom line that is. Step outside some night and look at all the stars. Where do you think they came from and the whole universe? I think deep down you know that there truly is a God it is just us that is the problem. We have to accept His plan for us and repent and follow HIS commandments before we can start seeing the light of day. Even then everything is not a bed of Roses as relegion would have you beleive. I feel sorry for you if you really think that way. I have said before that I dont even think I could really call myself a Christian. I realize that staement will open up so more debate probably but oh well.

SVB · 10-04-2004, 11:04 AM

The Bible you read today is not the bible though. Unless you have read the hundreds of books or that were 'lost' after being removed by Emperor Constantine. The Bible you read today is a made made doctrine. The Catholic church keeps an archive of purged books. These are also "the word of the lord", why dont we have them publically available then? Because the Bible has been censored to keep the public in order, its purpose is to show people how to live. If these books were still in, I bet we would be much different people. All is not what you think it is. There are hidden secrets we will probably not know of in our lifetimes. These books probably give a complete new twist to the whole story...

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 11:06 AM

I'm not going to try to debate you on this because its quite obvious that you will ignore any facts I present. Its sad that in our modern, civilized society, people are still clinging to a 2000 year old crutch to deal with their everyday lives.

I guess its better than the people clinging to their bottle of prozac though.

SVB · 10-04-2004, 11:07 AM

you talking to me?

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 11:08 AM

No, you're just too fast on the draw.

SVB · 10-04-2004, 11:10 AM

Ah

Your point of the 2000 year old thing is spot on. I always feel that in a few hundred years, people will look back at us, and see this whole thing as just another strange feature of 'the olden days'.. We're actually very primitive beings, we cant comprehend the universe, and need to assign a mystical being to solve that problem..

docquesting · 10-04-2004, 11:11 AM

Well Steve thats where me and you would go to the extremly wrong end of this debate so we better not go there. That is so far as the Catholics having all the so called real books. I nothat also there are certain relegions who would say they are the only true church ect ect. I think for the sake of peace we better not go any fruther than what you just said.

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 11:18 AM

But, the vatican does have the largest collection of actual ancient texts. Other than the nag hammadi scrolls, the vatican has every other book of value. But the nag hammadi scrolls have already been called heresy by the vatican, because they go against the teachings of the modern church. Funny how that works. The books of the bible (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John etc) have no proof of actually being written by their so called authors, and the books with historical relevancy are "heresy". Convienient.

docquesting · 10-04-2004, 11:23 AM

I would not disagree as to the vatican having more old collections. I just dont see how you guys can say the Bible is not the Word of God. Evidently you have not experianced the real thing. But we will leave well enough alone on that lol.

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 11:25 AM

We can say the bible is not the word of god because there isnt a shred of evidence to prove that it was written by him/her/it?

I wish I could have faith, it would make life so much easier. Nothing is my fault, everything is part of a divine plan, everything "bad" is part of the plan. It's a great life if you can convince yourself of it. Sadly I cant.

**South** · 10-04-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiral

I'm not going to try to debate you on this because its quite obvious that you will ignore any facts I present. Its sad that in our modern, civilized society, people are still clinging to a 2000 year old crutch to deal with their everyday lives.

I guess its better than the people clinging to their bottle of prozac though.

Your "facts" are based on your cynicism. There are millions of people who cling to Christianity not as a crutch as you called it (what most athiests call it) but as their religeous faith. To write something that assumes Christianity is for the weak who need a crutch to deal with everyday life is insulting. Maybe someday you will share that faith, perhaps you never will, but your comments are more than simply condescending, they're an insult to millions.

People choose their religion. If someone is a Christian it's because they have decided for themselves that they beleive it to be true. Do you feel the same way about Muslims, Wiccans, Mormons, ect, or is it just Christianity?

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 11:32 AM

People for the most part do not choose their religion, they are pressured into it by their family or their society. I have no problem with peoples beliefs, I do however have a problem with people who seem to think that their beliefs are somehow so important that our politicians should force their view on the entire world.

I have lots of christian friends and they are completely aware of my views, my sister is at a bible college and my mom always goes to church. I don't have any problem with christians, I have a problem with ignorant people who feel their faith is the end all of humanity.

**South** · 10-04-2004, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiral

I wish I could have faith, it would make life so much easier. Nothing is my fault, everything is part of a divine plan, everything "bad" is part of the plan. It's a great life if you can convince yourself of it. Sadly I cant.

Protestant Christianity puts ALL blame on individual action, and the "plan" is pretty general and pertains mostly to a final outcome. The whole focus is on the free will of the humans and the grace of Christ. How does that apply to your comments?

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southnow

Protestant Christianity puts ALL blame on individual action, and the "plan" is pretty general and pertains mostly to a final outcome. The whole focus is on the free will of the humans and the grace of Christ. How does that apply to your comments?

You are living your life for god. I really don't want to get into this here, but if any of you care to discuss this on MSN or AIM, I'd be more than happy.

**South** · 10-04-2004, 11:35 AM

and....

*sorry, I clicked before you posted.

**South** · 10-04-2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiral

You are living your life for god. I really don't want to get into this here, but if any of you care to discuss this on MSN or AIM, I'd be more than happy.

No, I never won an debate with an athiest yet. Just like Christians choose to be Christians, others choose their way as well. Since I believe Christianity to be true, I pray you eventually choose it, but I respect your choice to reject it.

Atom · 10-04-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiral

I guess its better than the people clinging to their bottle of prozac though.

Prozac is a 'good' drug. You don't get high on it, it's not addictive, and it has virtually no side effects. It's taken by people with certain types of depression and is a Godsend for these people. If you take prozac or any other psycotropic drug but your brain doesn't need it, then you simply don't notice any change in your outlook on things i.e. it has no effect.

Honest.

I don't take it but I am quite familiar with many types of drugs.

ATLien · 10-04-2004, 12:12 PM

Spiral · 10-04-2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southnow

I pray you eventually choose it, but I respect your choice to reject it.

This is the outlook that more people need to have. Thank you for being civil