Who do you want to win?

[tosheroon]

OOps sorry wrong thread I though we were discussing who I wanted to win American Idol... then again.

Re: God
Didn't he write the Koran, the Book of Mormon and mac OSX operating system too?
Bible is definitely one of his better works, I particularly like Ezekiel 23:19-22—

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.
20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled

but they tell me it lost something in the translation, apparently God wrote in Hebrew and there's a lot of mistakes in the English version.

Some process made the universe and if we can all agree to call that God (or Godess) then perhaps we can all get back to denouncing the page rank heretics.

[littleFella]

Originally Posted by docquesting

And I have already mentioned in this forum that we are all sinners

That's the part that is sometimes hard to accept. Since God is the creator of everything, he is also the creator of the very sins he is so kin on threatening to punish us for. I'm probably not a perfect father, but at least I didn't let my kids come to this world to blame them for anything. I makes mistakes and I can admit it. If you really read the Bible more than twice you will agree that God blew it a few times. Since we have been created to his image then he is as much a sinner as we are. Duality of God is a problem as old as Christianity itself.

Originally Posted by docquesting

And yes I am no better than any of you. But when it comes to the Bible and what God says is right we had better watch out.

Most of us dont know what God says, but only what other people told us what God said. So the majority of Christians have only third hand knowledge of their "father".
Not to mention that the multitude of Christian denominations makes you ask question as to the validity of some "universal" truths. Why should Baptists be accepted over Catholics, or Lutherans over Mormons?

Originally Posted by docquesting

Beleiving in the Word of God makes more since than beleiving in nothing or in evolution and that we came from apes. Bottom line that is.

Bottom line is that evolution is not an issue to be believed. It's a fact. Next time when you're prescribed antibiotics ask the doctor why it is important that you finish all the pills, even if you feel OK before they are all used up.

As for "coming from monkeys"; just as many atheists do not understand the essence of spirituality, many religious people do not understand the essence of the evolution. Yes, Darwin made a few wrong assumptions and drew a few wrong conclusions, but these are technicalities that by no means abolish the validity of the evolution in general.
Have you even read the book? Have you looked around you. There is plenty of proof that evolution is a fact. One might even say that there are more proofs of evolution than there are proofs that God is among us.

Originally Posted by docquesting

Step outside some night and look at all the stars. Where do you think they came from and the whole universe?

Looking at stars proves nothing. There is a relation of mutual exclusion between the physical and the supernatural in the historic sense. Science has no means of proving or disproving the existence of God. The closest we can come to the proof of God's action is by running out of time when going back into the beginning of the universe. While we have no scientific proof that God exists, we can probably deduce based on science that a supernatural power was the cause of everything. To you it was the Biblical God, to others it may be someone or something else. To you God is still actively involved in the universe, to others he was just the creator who retired after "seven days" and he is probably playing chess with some archangels

Originally Posted by docquesting

I think deep down you know that there truly is a God it is just us that is the problem. We have to accept His plan for us and repent and follow HIS commandments before we can start seeing the light of day.

Whatever plan that may be the Heaven is only about 144 square miles (according to the Bible). By now it must be a pretty crowded place, so my take is we're all doomed anyway.

And what is it that we should repent for? Why is it that a newborn baby is supposed to be eternally condemned should it die before it can see and accept "the light and love" of God? Just doesn't make sense. Did God create millions upon millions of non-christians just so that he could condemn them. I see no real plan here. Well, if there is one, it certainly doesn't show any kind of love. If God is truly loving and knows what he's doing than I cannot fathom why he gave us brains. Some things simply do not add up.

Bottom line is that the Bible should not be taken literally. It is a beautiful piece of art and very inspirational at that. After all it’s a very ancient text, based on even older, mostly Persian writings, so it had been worked upon for some time. Still, it is far from perfect, and pretty clumsy in some parts, so my take is that it would be offensive to God to call the Bible his word.

[littleFella]

Originally Posted by docquesting

That is so far as the Catholics having all the so called real books. I nothat also there are certain relegions who would say they are the only true church ect ect.

It's not really so important what books the RC has or not. What is important is that RC sanctioned the books which are now called the Old Testament. Of course RC is not no the author of the Books, but it's role is nevertheless critical in the shape of the Christian faith in general. It doesn't really matter which books are right and which are wrond. What constitutes the Bible is only a selection of Jewish writings plus a selection of books, letters etc known as the New Testament. There were more but RC decided to pick some of them. These are now used by almost all Christian denominations. The only difference is how the books are interpretted by various Christians.

In other words, RC gave all the Bible and said: this is the word of God - no other writings are. Should christianity be a modern invention, RC could easilly apply for a patent and trademark, thus making it impossible for other Christian denominations to form and be called Christian.

[SVB]

I agree with every point you made above. I just want to back up your point about evolution.

Originally Posted by Docquesting

Beleiving in the Word of God makes more since than beleiving in nothing or in evolution and that we came from apes.

There is no 'believing' in evolution. That is like 'believing' that you live on earth. You can't not believe it, unless you are some sort of idiot. Evolution is not some magical thing that happens. When a mutation of some sort occurs, if it is beneficial to the organism, then that organism should live on. That is a fact, it's just like other organisms but with an advantage. When the organism breeds, this beneficial gene is passed down. You cant argue that either. That is what evolution is. The passing down of beneficial genes.

Originally Posted by Docquesting

Step outside some night and look at all the stars. Where do you think they came from and the whole universe?

We can watch new stars being formed every day. We watch them die aswell. What do you think is the point in them? They are no more than balls of gas. Why would they bother to be constantly made and destroyed? God playing a game? You can't say 'look outside, where did that come from', then immediately say "God" when you are stumped for a scientific answer. It seems very primative to put all the yet unknown answers down to God.

Originally Posted by Docquesting

But when it comes to the Bible and what God says is right we had better watch out.

And what God would this be? Apparently there are other religions in the world bigger than Christianity. Are their Gods not right then?

[Pimpen 2010]

I dont feel like reading all this but, the biggest reason I dont like Kerry is because he thinks Macedonia shouldn't even be a country, that Tito made it a country. And macedonians have been around for a LONG time. And since Bush's sister in law is Macedonian, I'm sure he has a good amount of respect for Macedonia...

[SVB]

That is similar to me except the other way round. Clinton supports kerry, and clinton did loads for our country, when Thatcher messed it up. Bush did nothing.. So I'd prefer Kerry to be elected.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by Pimpen 2010

I dont feel like reading all this

[docquesting]

A guy (steve) whom I thought to be a catholic, an athiest or an evlutionist. What is this world coming to.

[SVB]

I have my own beliefs. I believe in certain things, I don't believe in others. Everything I believe can be disputed quite well by any side, I take every sides arguments into account. At the church one day (catholic) the sermon was different, they got lots of people to express their beliefs. Everyone has a few same beliefs, but almost everyone in that parish had a lot of different beliefs. It is your own personal faith and feelings about life and death that really matter.

[tosheroon]

PIMPEN I'd check that out if I was you, word is its a false rumour started by the Greeks (who as I'm sure you know are no fans of FYROM as they call it). Kerry never said any such thing.
there's a link here:-

forums.vmacedonia.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6762

[tosheroon]

and here's the text:-
August 2, 2004, Washington, DC: Senator Kerry's campaign denies false Greek-American claims on Senator's position on Macedonia Senator Kerry's campaign informed the the Macedonian American Friendship Association that the statement entitled STATEMENT BY SENATOR JOHN KERRY ON ISSUES OF CONCERN TO THE GREEK AMERICAN COMMUNITY in the July 19 press release of the American Hellenic Institute (AHI) is false and it only represents wishful thinking on the part of the AHI. Senator Kerry never made or endorsed such a statement. Senator Kerry's campaign also asked the AHI to issue a press release clarifying that the Kerry-Edwards Campaign was in no way involved with their July 19, 2004 draft statement and that, contrary to press reports AHI Executive Director Nick Larigakis and Senator John Kerry have not met during the course of the campaign. Today AHI issued a new press release which contains the same statement but without the offending title and makes it clear that it represents the AHI's, not Senator Kerry's position on the issue.

So what are your other reasons for voting Bush?

[tosheroon]

and finally,
Jeb's wife Columba Bush, formerly Columba Garnica Gallo, was
born in Leon, Guanajato, Mexico in 1954, she was caught attempting to smuggle 20,000 dollars worth of clothes from France to the US. Sharon Bush was recently divorced from Neil. She also said that she'd seen the Pres off his head on coke. Which sister-in-law are you refering to?

[Pimpen 2010]

Dunno which sister in law it is but one of them are, if you name Bush's brothers I think I can point out who it is...

But also, Kerry sides with Greece (also Albania) 2 things wrong with that. 1, how can you side with Greece and Albania? 2, since he sides with Greece, he wouldn't side with Macedonia. And I beleive Kerry said that Macedonia should be called FYROM.

Out of the 2, I really don't like neither, but, I'd rather have Bush in office instead of Kerry.

[sundancerz]

I dont feel like reading all this but, the biggest reason I dont like Kerry is

is...because that's what your parents thoughts are.

[SVB]

He's macedonian, I think he has his own feelings for his country.

[Pimpen 2010]

Originally Posted by Stephen Bradley

He's macedonian, I think he has his own feelings for his country.

Yes, I love where my parents are from, even though I wasn't born there I still love the place. And I dont say I'm American to people, I say I'm Macedonian. Just like you guys stick up for where ever you're from...

[Atom]

Originally Posted by Pimpen 2010

Yes, I love where my parents are from, even though I wasn't born there I still love the place. And I dont say I'm American to people, I say I'm Macedonian. Just like you guys stick up for where ever you're from...

Um.... I am from America, just like you.

That makes me an American.

Aren't you an American?

[Pimpen 2010]

Yah, I am from America, but I'm not American...