Racism

[Atom]

Originally Posted by G10

YOUR A WOP!!!

Damnit dude, I was happy being the only slimey greaseball, letch on here and now you tell me your one too.

Yeah but not full 100%. Never heard letch before. This forum has been very educational for me today. lol

[sim]

Atom's drunk.

[Atom]

Nope, stoned.

Gotta go up to the neighbor's for a bit .. be back

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by kristeejo

First of all, why do you think you are more of an expert on this because you witnessed it? We ALL witnessed it, Nick. I hate the media, but honey, cameras can't lie.

Cameras do not lie, but they also do not tell the whole story. Yes, the world witnessed the devastation of Hurricane Katrina on their televisions, but the pictures they were shown were those that the media chose to share. Those of us that lived it, often saw a very different story than the rest of the world did.

An example of this in Louisiana was the tragic death of 34 nursing home residents in St. Bernard Parish. The world watched Aaron Broussard's tearful outburst on national television concerning four days of cell phone calls begging for help coming from that nursing home. He blamed the federal government for those deaths.

The truth was that there were no cell phone calls begging for help following the storm. The residents died the day the storm hit. Cameras may not lie, but Aaron Broussard lied.

Thirty-four residents of that nursing home drowned August 29th. In my mind it was not only tragic, it was criminal, because of what happened BEFORE the hurricane struck.

What the cameras did not tell you (until much later) was that local authorities notified the owners of the nursing home of the mandatory evacuation MULTIPLE times BEFORE the storm hit. They offered both the means and the opportunity to protect the residents of that nursing home. The owners of the nursing home did not to take action.

This is just one of countless stories in which the media reported one story, but reality was quite different.

I am not a resident of Louisiana, so I will not comment on how I feel their local government handled the crisis.

Here in Mississippi though, our residents depended both on local government and on each other. When our governor told folks to get the hell out, most folks took him at his word and did. In the vast majority of cases, all people, regardless of skin color or economics, were provided both the means and the opportunity to leave.

One primary difference, may have been the history of Mississippians banding together to help each other, rather than just waiting on someone else to show up and do it for us. Family helping family. Neighbors helping neighbors. Strangers helping strangers. This continued in the aftermath with countless trips made into devastated areas to bring folks to safety, often times into our own homes.

This attitude continues today in the massive rebuilding of the communities.

Cameras do not lie, but frequently they do not show you this side of the picture, because these folks out there truly doing their part to make a difference are not famous celebrities. They are just everyday folks doing the right thing.

At some point, I believe that we must also consider our own personal responsibility. If you were a parent, faced with this situation and were given somewhere between 24 and 48 hours warning, would you not do everything within your power to bring your children to safety, even if it came down to putting emergency supplies in a backpack and heading north on foot?

I am not saying that the Federal Government did not make devastating errors. There is no question about that. They did. It is simply my humble opinion that skin color and economics did not play a role in our government's failure to respond in an organized and timely manner.

[kristeejo]

Originally Posted by Nick

I bet you shes doing this right now

You were right!!!!

[kristeejo]

Originally Posted by Heather

I betcha she's going to call you an arrogant ass for saying that.

John - You are an arrogant ass!

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Cricket

Cameras do not lie, but they also do not tell the whole story. Yes, the world witnessed the devastation of Hurricane Katrina on their televisions, but the pictures they were shown were those that the media chose to share. Those of us that lived it, often saw a very different story than the rest of the world did.

An example of this in Louisiana was the tragic death of 34 nursing home residents in St. Bernard Parish. The world watched Aaron Broussard's tearful outburst on national television concerning four days of cell phone calls begging for help coming from that nursing home. He blamed the federal government for those deaths.

The truth was that there were no cell phone calls begging for help following the storm. The residents died the day the storm hit. Cameras may not lie, but Aaron Broussard lied.

Thirty-four residents of that nursing home drowned August 29th. In my mind it was not only tragic, it was criminal, because of what happened BEFORE the hurricane struck.

What the cameras did not tell you (until much later) was that local authorities notified the owners of the nursing home of the mandatory evacuation MULTIPLE times BEFORE the storm hit. They offered both the means and the opportunity to protect the residents of that nursing home. The owners of the nursing home did not to take action.

This is just one of countless stories in which the media reported one story, but reality was quite different.

I am not a resident of Louisiana, so I will not comment on how I feel their local government handled the crisis.

Here in Mississippi though, our residents depended both on local government and on each other. When our governor told folks to get the hell out, most folks took him at his word and did. In the vast majority of cases, all people, regardless of skin color or economics, were provided both the means and the opportunity to leave.

One primary difference, may have been the history of Mississippians banding together to help each other, rather than just waiting on someone else to show up and do it for us. Family helping family. Neighbors helping neighbors. Strangers helping strangers. This continued in the aftermath with countless trips made into devastated areas to bring folks to safety, often times into our own homes.

This attitude continues today in the massive rebuilding of the communities.

Cameras do not lie, but frequently they do not show you this side of the picture, because these folks out there truly doing their part to make a difference are not famous celebrities. They are just everyday folks doing the right thing.

At some point, I believe that we must also consider our own personal responsibility. If you were a parent, faced with this situation and were given somewhere between 24 and 48 hours warning, would you not do everything within your power to bring your children to safety, even if it came down to putting emergency supplies in a backpack and heading north on foot?

I am not saying that the Federal Government did not make devastating errors. There is no question about that. They did. It is simply my humble opinion that skin color and economics did not play a role in our government's failure to respond in an organized and timely manner.

Well said Cricket!

[kristeejo]

Originally Posted by Cricket

Cameras do not lie, but they also do not tell the whole story. Yes, the world witnessed the devastation of Hurricane Katrina on their televisions, but the pictures they were shown were those that the media chose to share. Those of us that lived it, often saw a very different story than the rest of the world did.

An example of this in Louisiana was the tragic death of 34 nursing home residents in St. Bernard Parish. The world watched Aaron Broussard's tearful outburst on national television concerning four days of cell phone calls begging for help coming from that nursing home. He blamed the federal government for those deaths.

The truth was that there were no cell phone calls begging for help following the storm. The residents died the day the storm hit. Cameras may not lie, but Aaron Broussard lied.

Thirty-four residents of that nursing home drowned August 29th. In my mind it was not only tragic, it was criminal, because of what happened BEFORE the hurricane struck.

What the cameras did not tell you (until much later) was that local authorities notified the owners of the nursing home of the mandatory evacuation MULTIPLE times BEFORE the storm hit. They offered both the means and the opportunity to protect the residents of that nursing home. The owners of the nursing home did not to take action.

This is just one of countless stories in which the media reported one story, but reality was quite different.

I am not a resident of Louisiana, so I will not comment on how I feel their local government handled the crisis.

Here in Mississippi though, our residents depended both on local government and on each other. When our governor told folks to get the hell out, most folks took him at his word and did. In the vast majority of cases, all people, regardless of skin color or economics, were provided both the means and the opportunity to leave.

One primary difference, may have been the history of Mississippians banding together to help each other, rather than just waiting on someone else to show up and do it for us. Family helping family. Neighbors helping neighbors. Strangers helping strangers. This continued in the aftermath with countless trips made into devastated areas to bring folks to safety, often times into our own homes.

This attitude continues today in the massive rebuilding of the communities.

Cameras do not lie, but frequently they do not show you this side of the picture, because these folks out there truly doing their part to make a difference are not famous celebrities. They are just everyday folks doing the right thing.

At some point, I believe that we must also consider our own personal responsibility. If you were a parent, faced with this situation and were given somewhere between 24 and 48 hours warning, would you not do everything within your power to bring your children to safety, even if it came down to putting emergency supplies in a backpack and heading north on foot?

I am not saying that the Federal Government did not make devastating errors. There is no question about that. They did. It is simply my humble opinion that skin color and economics did not play a role in our government's failure to respond in an organized and timely manner.

What a great post. i appreciate what you've said -

[kristeejo]

I have to say - I was thinking about his conversation all night -

I came back and logged in and at first I was disappointed to what happened to this thread. Then I lastly read every word of Cricket's post.

CONVERSATION and COMMUNICATION is the only thing that can truly heal what we all carry with us from our own experiences.

We are lucky to live in this country, even with all of it's many problems.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by kristeejo

CONVERSATION and COMMUNICATION is the only thing that can truly heal what we all carry with us from our own experiences.

These are some of the wisest words I have seen in a very long time.

[cloudtrance]

Knowledge is not filling a pail with water. Its more like lighting a candle in the darkness.

Great balanced post cricket



Cheers,
Cloudtrance

[Atom]

What if there were room for everyone to grow up on a farm in the country, and live out their lives on the farm, would racism still develop?






∂

[G10]

Originally Posted by Atom

What if there were room for everyone to grow up on a farm in the country, and live out their lives on the farm, would racism still develop?

After reading all of this thread, I still can't get over Atom being a semi-Wop

BTW - Nicely put Cricket

[John Scott]

CONVERSATION and COMMUNICATION

Conversation and communication will only get you so far. There comes a time when people have to decide that they can not blame everything that happens to them on race. And people have to stop believing that past wrongs against their race do not entitle them to revenge. In short, racism needs to end.

When I was a contractor, a couple times I hired Blacks. Sometimes they would show up, sowrk a couple hours and leave. Usually they would work a few hours, ask for a draw, go to lunch and not come back. Not once did a Black employee work the entire day. But I continued to hire Blacks, because of two things - first, because one Black person is a lazy thief doesn't make all Black people lazy thieves; and secondly, White guilt.

One day I went to the Union Gospel Mission in downton Seattle and picked up three homeless guys who were referred to me by the Mission as needing work. I offered $12 an hour, paid at the end of the day. It was a better wage than I usually offer unskilled labor, but then they were staying at a mission so I figured a little extra cash would be apprecaited.

I took my new hires to the jobsite and explained the job - simply attacking hardware to the studs.

I went off to another jobsite. At noon I returned to buy the guys lunch. I found them not working, and found that they had not attached a single piece of hardware. I asked what was up, and they said they didn't feel like working, because it was cold. Ok, so they waste my time and theirs. I drove them back to the mission.

At the mission they decide that they need to be paid for the full day. I ask why, and they say that they need the money more than I do, because they are black and I am "the man". I tell them they wasted my time, and I do not pay for work that's not been done. They then threaten to take my tool, because as a contractor I had thousands of dollars of tools in the van. I tell these jokers that they do not want to try that, and two of them get the picture and get out of my truck.

One guy refuses, threatens violence unless I pay him off, and we have a nice long talk. Essentially he thought that since I am White, he is entitled to whatever he wants of mine, because he is Black and a victim.

And that's the problem right there. Within the Black population of America, there are many Black people who believe they have to work for a living, and they work. They do not believe in asking some freebies of welfare, and they are good upstanding citizens. They are doctors, lawyers, contractors (yes, I worked for a Black contractor once and he was a prince of a fellow), cooks, and every other profession.

Then there is an entirely different group of Blacks. They listen to the liberal Black media which tells them that if they are not a millionaire along the lines of Bill Gates, it's because of "the man" who has oppressed them. They listen to black separatists like Louis Farrakhan, who tell them that they do not need to obey "White law" or be judged in "White courts" (even when the jury is Black). This small group within the Black community does more damage to the Black community than slavery ever did.

How can I say that? Well, when you tell young poeple that they are victims, they tend to think the way that guy did in my van. They will feel entitled, and they will have no respect for the law. And if you look at the prison population you will see what this culture of violence and entitlement has done to the young Black community.

[kristeejo]

I grew up hearing much of what you just said every day from various family members. I spent my younger adult years not really knowing anythiing about black culture and/or struggles...I was the "typical" white person with the "typical" white views *see above* I didn't "hate" black people and actually argued with others when they spoke in a degrading fashion, but I still was ignorant of why "they" were the way "they" were.

One of my clients was a guy who published books about "black achievement" and long story short I began working for him full time as a web developer and production manager of his publications.

Coming in, I was very "green" to everything "black," but very intrigued by what I saw. I worked with people, who happened to be black, and we were in the publishing industry - this meant MANY hours of work a day. John - THESE BLACK PEOPLE WERE NOT LAZY!

Over the years, I was EDUCATED. We often sit and 'judge' their culture because we don't understand why they think they are intitled to anything. After all, I DIDN'T INSLAVE THEM. "Why don't they just get over what happened in the past?" Right, John?

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Do some homework. Find out what really happened to an entire RACE of people in the country and NOT that long ago! There are still people LIVING in this country who witnessed lynchings! Families had their land STOLEN by white folks who wanted it and their true owners received no money and they still don't have it back. If that happened to you, wouldn't you feel you deserved something in return for your land? These people grow up and teach their children to fear whites. Wouldn't you? They pass down the TRUE stories of what happened to their family members, which either establishes fear or anger and neither produce a positive quality in someone...wouldn't you agree?

I believe, had you been born...simply by CHANCE...to a black family, your views would not be so harsh.

Undoubtedly, there are problems with certain people in the black race. But, until our race is without, who are we to point our fingers and judge?

I agree with you about one thing and that's Louis Farakkhan. He is no better than the KKK and is spewing hatred which adds fuel to the fire. But if you do some research....find out what exactly happened in this country and not just what you've been told.....you may have some compassion and UNDERSTANDING of how things are the way they are.

[TekKen]

You think black people of today give a damn about what happened in the past? They dont care about the slave thing they dont care about whatever land has been taken. The ones who have experienced it will care but normal black people wont give a crap about that so dont blame there hatred on the way they where treated 100's of years ago. Fact is two babies are born its more likely the black baby will be violent then the white one.

[John Scott]

"typical" white person with the "typical" white views

Wow, talk about racist.

John - THESE BLACK PEOPLE WERE NOT LAZY!

Did you even read my post, and why the hell do you think of them as "Black people"? I think I see some racism here. You are grouping all Black people into one group, and they are not. You think Black people have a ton in common?

You're White and I'm White, but do you think we have all that much in common? What's with this racism????

I have more in common with some Mexicans I worked with as a contractor than I do with my White father, or my White sister. I have more in common with the Black contractor that I worked with than most White people who do office work.

Genes do not define personalities or character.

Stop looking at genes and start looking at belief sets of cultural subgroups - it will get you a LOT farther.

Over the years, I was EDUCATED. We often sit and 'judge' their culture because we don't understand why they think they are intitled to anything. After all, I DIDN'T INSLAVE THEM. "Why don't they just get over what happened in the past?" Right, John?

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Do some homework. Find out what really happened to an entire RACE of people in the country and NOT that long ago! There are still people LIVING in this country who witnessed lynchings! Families had their land STOLEN by white folks who wanted it and their true owners received no money and they still don't have it back. If that happened to you, wouldn't you feel you deserved something in return for your land? These people grow up and teach their children to fear whites. Wouldn't you? They pass down the TRUE stories of what happened to their family members, which either establishes fear or anger and neither produce a positive quality in someone...wouldn't you agree?

I believe, had you been born...simply by CHANCE...to a black family, your views would not be so harsh.

You you do believe that an entire race is entitled. Entitled to special treatment, entitled to "revenge", and entitled to welfare and exemption from the justice system.

Funny, because successful Blacks will tell you that the sense of entitlement is exactly what is keeping many Blacks from achieving their full potential.

Families had their land STOLEN by white folks who wanted it

Where did I hear this before? Oh yes! In prison, a Black guy who had killed a Japanese guy in a theft. He said he wouldn't be stealing in the first place if White people hadn't stolen his family's wealth. (See what that sense of entitlement does to you?)

I didn't have no inheritance. Nobody did me favors. I made it. Same with my father - raised in an orphanage, he didn't get his wealth handed to him on a silver platter. Very few people do.

[kristeejo]

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Genes do not define personalities or character.

Stop looking at genes and start looking at belief sets of cultural subgroups - it will get you a LOT farther.

I do not believe "genetics" define character. However, my point had nothing to do with this. I said thier father and mother's EXPERIENCES have been passed down to them which WILL (obviously did in your case *in prison* I'M NOT SURPRISED BTW) have an effect on the rest of their lives.

Originally Posted by JohnScott

You you do believe that an entire race is entitled. Entitled to special treatment, entitled to "revenge", and entitled to welfare and exemption from the justice system.

Funny, because successful Blacks will tell you that the sense of entitlement is exactly what is keeping many Blacks from achieving their full potential.

They ARE entitled to a little bit of understanding....and you would feel differently, of course, had you grown up in a different home in a different side of town....

I know many, many, many VERY successful blacks all around this country and have had much dialogue with them. They, just like white or hispanic or asian people, had a goal that they refused not to meet. They, in most instances though, had to work much harder and put up with a lot more bull**** than someone who was white achieving their goals.

Geez...am I gonna hear another prison story now? Were you a black guys' bitch or something???

[John Scott]

Undoubtedly, there are problems with certain people in the black race. But, until our race is without, who are we to point our fingers and judge?

I don't judge races, and neither should you. You should judge individuals based on their character, beliefs, and ethics.

I have never once thought, "I'm White. That's who I am". I am John Scott. I don't even think of myself as American. I was raised in Japan and my beliefs/character etc is not very American at all.

[John Scott]

They ARE entitled to a little bit of understanding

No, all people get the same amount of understanding. Asking for special treatment because of somebody's skin color is nothing more than racism.

Were you a black guys' bitch or something???

Eww, where did the vulgarity come from? Can't you have an intelligent discussion without suggesting that some Black guy rape somebody? You seem to even endorse it, from the way you say it.

You think Blacks are entitled to rape people, too?