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Old 07-30-2007, 08:31 PM
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Fire employee for timesheet fraud?

Should an employer fire an employee for timesheet fraud? This could cause an employee thousands of dollars if not paid attention to.

What should the employer do? Is this grounds for termination?
 
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:56 PM
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Yes. I would be stunned if an employer chose not to terminate an employee caught messing around with his/her time sheets.
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by watley View Post
Yes. I would be stunned if an employer chose not to terminate an employee caught messing around with his/her time sheets.
Exactly. It's also a matter of trust in general. If an employee lies on their timesheets, what else are they doing at the expense of the company?
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:15 PM
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Yes. I would be stunned if an employer chose not to terminate an employee caught messing around with his/her time sheets.
Ditto.
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Old 07-30-2007, 10:21 PM
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It is your very right to protect your money and trust.

I hope other staff will also learn a future warning / lesson from this.

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Old 07-31-2007, 05:43 AM
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I think you should made your observation first
then if found guilty, necessary action is needed.
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:42 AM
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Definitely can him. Fraud like that would continue - and is likely to lead to other fraud/theft. If you keep him around, he'll think he can get away with anything.
 
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by imaginemn View Post
Should an employer fire an employee for timesheet fraud? This could cause an employee thousands of dollars if not paid attention to.

What should the employer do? Is this grounds for termination?
It's stealing pure, and simple.
 
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:10 AM
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If it is fraud and can be proven as such then yes they should be out the door immediately. But the extent of this case has not been divulged and we are all making assumptions.

If it happened on one occasion I raise the question that it may be merely an error and perhaps a chance to make good the over payment would suffice.

If it happens on more than one occasion then test the employee's numeracy skills, first.

There may in fact be an issue that the employee is having to work extra hours and feels justified in trying to get financial restitution, albeit in an underhanded way.

Unless we know the true facts of the case it is difficult to advise effectively.

A wise man takes the time to establish all the facts before making judgement, if at all.
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:50 AM
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It's easy to prove that this is going on multiple times. For 1, the employee has to have an admin from the building let him in the building because it's a secure environment. What he is not aware is that they log everytime a person walks in. Also, there are security cameras that clearly show when he comes in and at what time. Finally, I've actually witness it myself firsthand. I was in the lobby when he came in and noticed the time. When he turned in his timesheet, it was clearly wrong (30 minutes to be exact) for that one instance alone.

Here is what an attorney had to say:

What does your employee manual say about termination procedures? Written warnings? Verbal warnings? First, I would invest in a punchclock which timestamps the timesheet and in the meantime give your employee a "last chance" notice re: any discrepancies on the timesheet. If he is an "at will" employee you can fire him for no reason, but you would not want him to file UE claim.
 
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:54 AM
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Unless the company is very small - and if it's in a secured building then I would guess it isn't - this will all be explicitly spelled out in the employee manual. The company may have a graduated disciplinary action system, in which a sequence of warnings is the usual course of action, but even in this case something like timeclock fraud is generally a no-second-chances offense.

Documentation is key. If there is clear evidence that timeclock fraud is going on, the employee is history.

(Yes, I used to work as a personnel manager at a mid-sized company.)
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:53 AM
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Small amounts maybe let it go with a strong warning ... 000's $'s then they've got to go.
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Old 07-31-2007, 05:49 PM
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My thought is who cares how much money - if he/she will cheat you over a dollar, I wouldn't have him/her working for me.

However, like your attorney states, you can't just "fire" anyone these days in most cases. You'll have to use 'write-ups."
 
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:09 PM
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It really depends on the company. Most companies will specify in their employee manual that there are some offenses which result in immediate termination. Having had the unpleasant duty of firing people, I can assure you this is the case. We had a system of graduated write-ups, but some things (theft, drug use) led to immediate dismissal.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:48 AM
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My thought is who cares how much money - if he/she will cheat you over a dollar, I wouldn't have him/her working for me.

However, like your attorney states, you can't just "fire" anyone these days in most cases. You'll have to use 'write-ups."
In these parts, we call it "Termination For Cause" and there are no write ups or warnings.
If a crime has been committed (fraud) then termination is instant and perfectly legal.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:56 AM
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We have to give a reason to terminate people in Japan as well. But a number of reasons are given as choices. Among them "attitude problem" and "poor performance" are my favorites.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by imaginemn View Post
Should an employer fire an employee for timesheet fraud? This could cause an employee thousands of dollars if not paid attention to.

What should the employer do? Is this grounds for termination?
It is dishonest and shows a lack of integrity. How can you trust an employee that does that? It is grounds for termination.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:00 PM
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I say that is means for automatic termination. It is after all stealing from the company.
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