Drug-addicted - sick or bastards?

[Ferre]

The "dangers" of drugs are way too much exaggerated. Exaggerated by the press, exaggerated by politicians, and therefor also exaggerated by the public who gets their information from the press and the government.

As I said before, the vast majority of the people who use drugs only do that occasionally, just as most people drink occasionally. The vast majority of people who try drugs like cocaine and heroine out of curiosity find out very quickly that the positives of those drugs do not outweigh the negatives and stick with more pleasant drugs to use occasionally, be it alcohol, pot or something else.

Fact is that humans do not get addicted from using drugs like Heroine or cocaine a couple of times to try it out. It takes some serious abuse of those drugs and the daily use for many weeks in a row to get actually addicted to either one of them.


Then there's the other exaggeration; the level in which addicted people feel "sick" when their body craves for the drug they are addicted to. Truth is that this "sickness" can be compared with a mild case of flu and doesn't last long either. The media leads us to believe that "coming down" is some sort of hell and comes with hallucinations and spastic muscle cramps etc. All exaggeration to scare people.

Fact is that there are way more people (per capita) addicted to gambling, alcohol or nicotine than there are illegal drug addicts. fact is that the physical negative effects of withdrawal from alcohol is much worse than from Heroine or Cocaine.

The safest drug to use, much safer than any other drugs, is pot. There is no such thing as pot/addiction (despite the government lies telling us the opposite), not one person ever in history died from pot use (It is not lethal even in massive amounts)

How comes that there are so many people getting therapy for "pot addiction" when that is true you might ask, well, it's a government scam to get the statistics. When you get arrested in the USA, or the UK for pot possession the judges in many cases will give people the choice between jail time and/or huge fines, or "therapy". Those who prefer not to go to jail and choose for the "therapy" are used in statistics to "prove" that pot is a social problem, addictive and a health risk in the government's scare campaign. Only countries that send people through court into "therapy" as a way of punishment for possession have those "pot addiction" statistics, other countries simply don't know this phenomena. Any person in his right state of mind would choose "therapy" above going to jail or pay huge fines, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

I'm not advocating drugs use here, just putting things in a more realistic perspective.

[StarLab]

Originally Posted by Ferre

[color=DarkGreen]
Then there's the other exaggeration; the level in which addicted people feel "sick" when their body craves for the drug they are addicted to. Truth is that this "sickness" can be compared with a mild case of flu and doesn't last long either. The media leads us to believe that "coming down" is some sort of hell and comes with hallucinations and spastic muscle cramps etc. All exaggeration to scare people.

Seriously? Ended up with all those symptoms when I was drying out. (Alcohol... yes it's a drug too!) Day 3-10 were the worst! Saw porcupine quills stacking themselves in the corner... and no porcupine to be found! (And I searched for one too! lol)

The hallucinations and tremors were only part of it. The constant nagging of "just have one drink" turned minutes into hours!

I think the time line as a lot to do with it as well. Someone with an addiction that has only lasted a couple months would have an easier time quitting than someone who has been at it for 10 years.

It's hard to generalize the effects of withdrawal as it can vary greatly depending on the individual.

I agree with you about pot. It's a pretty safe drug and the measures governments are going through to keep it off the streets is nothing short of ridiculous. The only reason Gov's make such a stink about it is they don't get any revenue from the people selling it. (aside from fines for possession)

I don't have kids (and after the end of this statement, some of you might be glad of that fact) but I would rather see them puff a fattie than take a drink.

[Ferre]

Yes, alcohol withdrawal is far worse than from Heroine of cocaine, the drugs I was referring to regarding the exaggeration.

The muscle spasms, hallucinations and such are found with alcohol addiction, not with heroine addiction, which' withdrawal indeed, can be compared with a flu. I've had several friends which I grew up with who got addicted to heroine in the 70's and some got addicted to speed and I took a few of them into my house and helped them kick off the habit, I also had some friends getting addicted to alcohol and from my experience I can say that alcohol is by far the worse addiction.

The funny thing is that pot is an excellent medicine to help cure alcohol addiction, and Ibogaine, another drug, is an excellent medicine to help cure heroine addiction. I've witnessed several people kick their alcohol addiction with the help of pot. Maybe that's one of the reasons that the Cannabis prohibition movement gets huge financial support from the alcohol industry btw.

[Bonnie24]

Originally Posted by Ferre

Yes, alcohol withdrawal is far worse than from Heroine of cocaine, the drugs I was referring to regarding the exaggeration.

The muscle spasms, hallucinations and such are found with alcohol addiction, not with heroine addiction, which' withdrawal indeed, can be compared with a flu. I've had several friends which I grew up with who got addicted to heroine in the 70's and some got addicted to speed and I took a few of them into my house and helped them kick off the habit, I also had some friends getting addicted to alcohol and from my experience I can say that alcohol is by far the worse addiction.

The funny thing is that pot is an excellent medicine to help cure alcohol addiction, and Ibogaine, another drug, is an excellent medicine to help cure heroine addiction. I've witnessed several people kick their alcohol addiction with the help of pot. Maybe that's one of the reasons that the Cannabis prohibition movement gets huge financial support from the alcohol industry btw.

perhaps it is better to live a fast but bright life and die young then live a grey long life and die healthy......i really don't know

[StarLab]

Originally Posted by Ferre

[color=DarkGreen]Yes, alcohol withdrawal is far worse than from Heroine of cocaine, the drugs I was referring to regarding the exaggeration.

I can't speak for Heroin, but from what I understand, Alcohol and Heroin are both heavy physical addictions, where most other drugs are more psychological addictions. Those others, you can quite those with very little physical trauma.

Either way, both require the will and a strong mind to quit.

[jackmo]

Originally Posted by Bonnie24

perhaps it is better to live a fast but bright life and die young then live a grey long life and die healthy......i really don't know

interesting thread.

Bonnie do you beleive that one can't have a long and healthy life and still live at a fast / bright pace? I'd be careful about the assumptions in that comment.

For me, growing up my mum was a heroine addict and I've seen the affect its had on my family and particularly my older brothers. My dad and a lot of his uncles are or have been afflicted by alchoholism.

In terms of what is better or worse, I think that's a philosophical question but the fact remains that no matter what the addiction is, if you're using drugs or alcohol to self-midicate that you are probably missing out on life.

My dad has always been great and I despite having to put up with a drunk sometimes I count myself lucky that I grew up with him. I love my mum but think that someone hooked on harry will do a lot more desperate sh!t to get their fix. Overall I just feel sadness and compasion for them both, such loving and caring people that I know will feel regret and wish they never had those addictions.

I think the comment 'Drug abuse is a symptom of other problems' is on the money. No matter what your addiction is - drugs, alcohol, gambling, online gaming - it is a form of escapism. A denial of living in the moment.

I'm no expert but to me I feel that it stems from an inability to live in teh moment. As a society we need to learn how to be present and stop dwelling on the past or living in the future.

How you actually do this is a quest for us all :p

[Bonnie24]

Originally Posted by jackmo

interesting thread.

Bonnie do you beleive that one can't have a long and healthy life and still live at a fast / bright pace? I'd be careful about the assumptions in that comment.

For me, growing up my mum was a heroine addict and I've seen the affect its had on my family and particularly my older brothers. My dad and a lot of his uncles are or have been afflicted by alchoholism.

In terms of what is better or worse, I think that's a philosophical question but the fact remains that no matter what the addiction is, if you're using drugs or alcohol to self-midicate that you are probably missing out on life.

My dad has always been great and I despite having to put up with a drunk sometimes I count myself lucky that I grew up with him. I love my mum but think that someone hooked on harry will do a lot more desperate sh!t to get their fix. Overall I just feel sadness and compasion for them both, such loving and caring people that I know will feel regret and wish they never had those addictions.

I think the comment 'Drug abuse is a symptom of other problems' is on the money. No matter what your addiction is - drugs, alcohol, gambling, online gaming - it is a form of escapism. A denial of living in the moment.

I'm no expert but to me I feel that it stems from an inability to live in teh moment. As a society we need to learn how to be present and stop dwelling on the past or living in the future.

How you actually do this is a quest for us all :p

Hi Jackmo, thank you for a very reasonable and witty answer, you made me think and I guess I believe a man/woman can live a healthy long bright life - if a man/woman does have such kind of life, then I think he/she achieved everything and he/she is very lucky.
Very sorry for your parents, I am sure they are loving and caring ones, everyone has his/her "zest".

How can you explain the fact that among the musicians there is a great bunch of drug-addicts? So many of them died of overdose: Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan, Sid Vicious, etc - talented but with sad destiny.

I thought a lot and came to conclusion - everyone has its own way, he/she chooses the way to follow in life and this way is to respected What do you think?

[jackmo]

Hi Bonnie,

Originally Posted by Bonnie24

Very sorry for your parents, I am sure they are loving and caring ones, everyone has his/her "zest".

thank you for your kind words but no need for sorry, honestly. It's true about my parents but I don't mean to paint a bleak picture. I feel I've lived a very privileged life and thoroughly enjoyed my childhood. I count myself as very lucky.

My dad may have very occasionally been abusive while drunk but I never once suffered from violence, fear or neglect and not living with my mum I was largely sheltered from the reality of her addictions - sadly my 2 older bro's were not as lucky. But again they're doing alright :p

Originally Posted by Bonnie24

How can you explain the fact that among the musicians there is a great bunch of drug-addicts? So many of them died of overdose: Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan, Sid Vicious, etc - talented but with sad destiny.

*deep breath* well, I don't think being a drug-addict necessarily diminishes your ability to be a good musician or creative artist, in some respects it may even enhance it. For all its flaws I've always found Pot to make you more introspective and be able to think about things objectively.

For harder drugs I have no real personal experience but I imagine these artists may have gone through difficult times as a result of using. These difficult times may have served as a source of inspiration for their music and song writing.

A question for you; do you think they would be as popular or famous if they didn't controversially die of an overdose?

As a society we worship celebrity, as humans we're naturally very curious of anything taboo (drugs in this case). Combine this with the fact that we love a good tragedy you have the ultimate recipe for a great story that people will emotionally connect with.

Take Elvis and Johny Cash for example. Both hugely popular in their time, both heavy into drugs. Elvis died young and in tragic circumstances, Johny Cash died recently as an old man. I think its pointless trying to debate who was the 'better' artist, but I think it could be argued that Elvis' death catapulted his name into history and secured him as an icon of the 20th century.

Anyway, take it easy!

[Bonnie24]

Originally Posted by jackmo

A question for you; do you think they would be as popular or famous if they didn't controversially die of an overdose?

I fully agree with you concerning the sad stories people like.....yes, it's true. I don't know as for if they would't have died would they be as famous...Let's take Mick Jagger or Johnny Rotten - both are millionaires, the latter is not heard but he quitely lives with his family in LA if I am not mistaken. Well, you really confused me, I don't know yet...I will think about it.

You are from Egypt? I was in Egypt last year

[jackmo]

hehe I got a little confused myself, conversation swinging from drug users, to overdoses and musicians on drugs :p

I guess the point I was trying to make is that people like Jim Morrison, Johny Thunders, Elvis etc were not necessarily better or worse musicians / performers because of drugs but that their controversial death helped to secure their status as an icon.

Also that despite being immensely successful as artists, their personal and family lives will likely to have suffered as a result of their addiction.

Originally Posted by Bonnie24

You are from Egypt? I was in Egypt last year

No I'm Australian, living in England. I just went to Egypt for a holiday and wrote a blog about all the people trying to scam tourists :p Where abouts did you go?

p.s. Johny Thunder is quality. I'm always on the lookout for new music and I'd never heard of him before reading this thread so decided to have a listen :p cheers

[Bonnie24]

Originally Posted by jackmo

hehe I got a little confused myself, conversation swinging from drug users, to overdoses and musicians on drugs :p

I guess the point I was trying to make is that people like Jim Morrison, Johny Thunders, Elvis etc were not necessarily better or worse musicians / performers because of drugs but that their controversial death helped to secure their status as an icon.

Also that despite being immensely successful as artists, their personal and family lives will likely to have suffered as a result of their addiction.



No I'm Australian, living in England. I just went to Egypt for a holiday and wrote a blog about all the people trying to scam tourists :p Where abouts did you go?

p.s. Johny Thunder is quality. I'm always on the lookout for new music and I'd never heard of him before reading this thread so decided to have a listen :p cheers

hi, yep, the conversation has turned into the "artistic" direction. So, they wouldn't have become an icon without having an overdose and dying? Hmm, Patti Smith is still (thanks God) alive, she is 60 and to some extent she is an icon, she is a millionaire and still writes songs and does performances....
Though, yes, I guess it depends on a particular musician/situation, I don't know how to explain...some are forgotten in some years, some are not...if Johnny Thunder was alive I am sure he would have composed more very good songs...too sad. Take Bob Dylan... a very talented person, an icon too for musicians of 70s, he started playing at CBGB if I am not mistaken...he is healthy and still composes and does shows...

Yes, the families suffered though as people say sometimes it is hard to live a personal life with actors, musicians, people from the "scene", though again, it depends on each person and situation!

I went with my parents to Cairo as tourists, nice country, hot but nice.

Which city are you living in England? I was there too

[Bonnie24]

and yes, Johnny Thunders is a great talent

[francis84]

Some people are taking drugs to temporarily forget their problem... They will do it today, on the next day, on the next day, on the next day... Until they get hooked using it.

Drug addiction is the WORST form of addiction for me. =(

[Bonnie24]

Originally Posted by francis84

Some people are taking drugs to temporarily forget their problem... They will do it today, on the next day, on the next day, on the next day... Until they get hooked using it.

Drug addiction is the WORST form of addiction for me. =(

yes, perhaps, though there are lots of other ones: video games addiction, food addiction, TV addiciton - all of them are a way to escape from reality with the heavy consequences.