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Old 06-04-2004, 03:59 PM
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D-Day

Well the big anniversary is on this weekend, with massive celebrations. Whats going on in your area? Over here, theres an airshow 30 miles fomr me, with loads of WW2 aircraft, as well as loads of modern day jets. BBC and ITV (tv channels) are devoting the weekend to coverage of the big events in Normandy, with the Canadians landing on the beach, the Brits landing and walking around, people talking about it etc.
Theres also a new documentary released called "D-Day in Colour". It looks really good, astonishing accorsing to the news. It is old archive footage of D-Day collected from all round the world, but enhanced to be in colour. So its like watching the whole landing in colour. Theres commentary by young soldiers using scripts written by the D-Day veterns, the whole thing comes together to present a very atmospheric show showing the horrors the 17 year old soldiers went through. Loks relaly good, ill def be watching it (for UK readers, its on Monday at 22:45 on BBC (I think its monday))
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 08:26 AM
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Im surprsied noones talking about it, if it wasnt for DDay you would be speaking German now.
Anyway, there was lots of coverage today on tv, they had parachute landings and events on Pegasus bridge. The americans had a march along the bridge. Tomorrow theres a big reconstruction of the boat landings on the beach by the British, and the smaller US and Canadian landings on the other beaches.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster
Im surprsied noones talking about it, if it wasnt for DDay you would be speaking German now.
You seem to be forgetting the Eastern front. By the time D-Day happened the Russians did most of the work, and it was just a question of time for the Germans to fall.

So, I would disagree. We would not be speaking German now, although possibly we would be speaking Russian.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:32 AM
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Where did you learn history? The Russians were failing miserably. America won that war.
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:34 AM
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John, you're an excellent host provider but you don't know much about WW2, do you?
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:42 AM
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Um, if you only knew. I've read more on the subject than pretty much any other subject.
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:44 AM
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If it wasnt for DDay, the Germans would have held the Western front. they could have hosted an Invasion on Britan. On the East, anything could have happened. Some leaders say it was because the allies were afraid of the Soviets sweeping across Europe, as they had seen what they could do on the East. It was the most critical part of the war for the allies at any rate, and the objectives were acheived. Thats why there are thousands of Brits and Americans in normandy as we speak, and the news channels are covering all the events.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnScott
Um, if you only knew. I've read more on the subject than pretty much any other subject.
Then you must know about the Warsaw uprising and the Soviet role (or lack of thereof) in that uprising, and why they behaved they way they did. They sat on the Vistula river for months because they had the comfort. They knew they had already won. True, if the Soviet soldiers had boots they would have finished the Germans earlier.

Suffice to say that during WW2 a German soldier would be sent to the Eaastern front as a penalty, and conversly, to reward a soldier for millitary achievement he would be sometimes sent to the Western front.

You seem to be confusing early Soviet defeat by the Germans, and that may be overshadowing your picture of the Soviet military actions during the remainder of WW2.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:50 AM
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On September 15, 1941, Germany began the Siege of Leningrad. It would not end until January 1944.

In October 1941 the U.S. began supplying the USSR under the Lend-Lease Act.

Soviet Union deaths from WW2: 25,568,000
Germany : 7,060,000

Stalin was a moron when it came to war strategy and this is pretty much common knowledge. If the US didn't ebter the war and supply the USSR with tanks, they would have been riding horseback.
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:51 AM
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I Forgot about Battle for Britain, probably more important for britain alone that D-Day was. From a book review:
"After reading this book, you truly begin to see how narrow minded the average American perception of World War II really is. Not to discount the magnificant American battles such as the landing at Normandy or the Battle for Midway, but the Battle for Britain was absolutely the finest display of honor and courage throughout the entire war. This tiny island and its courageous people stood alone and stood tall against not only the behemoth Nazi-German menace, but at the same time fought the Mussolini in northern Africa and awaited the Japanese onslaught in their Australasian colonies. Its an absolutely inspiring work, and its an absolute sin that American schools dont teach the story of how the British people shined so brightly during their darkest hour.
"
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster
If it wasnt for DDay, the Germans would have held the Western front.
and send more power to fight against the Russians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster
On the East, anything could have happened. Some leaders say it was because the allies were afraid of the Soviets sweeping across Europe, as they had seen what they could do on the East
.

Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster
Thats why there are thousands of Brits and Americans in normandy as we speak, and the news channels are covering all the events.
Canadians and Poles too.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:55 AM
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Yup and French :-p
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster
Not to discount the magnificant American battles such as the landing at Normandy or the Battle for Midway....
"
I would never discount the American effort in the War. It was very important, but I do have a problem when people suggest that D-Day did the trick. It was very helpful, but at the stage when it ocurred it only sped up the inevitable fall of Nazi Germany.

edit: added "inevitable"
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster
Yup and French :-p
yeah, some French too.
My sister lives in France, actually in Normandy so I know the French mind on that. Funny how they like to avoid the subject
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:01 AM
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The USSR was so underpowered and assbackward that Hitler estimated it would fall in 4 months. It probably would have fallen in four months if it wasn't for Britian and the US.
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:02 AM
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Although the USSR did capture the Reichstag
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:04 AM
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Funny that isn't it

As for saying America won that war......

Nobody one it alone, America wasn't the sole reason for the war being one by the western allies, there was a lot more to it than the Americans joining. It would be quite narrow minded imo to just say that America won WW2, as in my mind it was definitely a combined effort coupled with the added strength of the British upon the completion of their re-armament programs.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:06 AM
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Also relating to the USSR, they may have been weakened etc. but that massive man power they put into the war at least bought the allies some time, and at least they switched over to our side after the initial Nazi-Soviet Pact etc.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:06 AM
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tbh I would say it was the brits and yanks won it. Brits did a lot more covert ops, destroying key elements such as Dams (The Dam Busters, another very important event of WW2).
the yanks went in to normandy with force, and did alot of good work in Italy and germany.
 
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Old 06-05-2004, 10:07 AM
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added strength of the French...
LOL. I almost fell off my chair reading that.
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