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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 10:39 AM
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Do you believe in reason?

Apparently there are seven reasons by people don't like reason. I guess that is reasonable!

Be honest, read the article linked to below and answer the question in the thread title.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...0hate%20reason
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm View Post
Do you believe in reason?
Awe Strong, without reason how could one believe? I mean with out the faculty of reason or reasoning (clear thinking) who could survive? I think not even an Atheist could stand not to at least believe in REASON. For how then could the Atheists believe in themselves or their own abilities?
 
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:27 PM
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2: No one actually uses reason
This is not right I think.

7: Reason is just another faith
Very true, it is like a own personal religion.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:54 PM
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Reason is not perfect, nor is it capable of solving all of the world's mysteries. Equating it with "a personal religion" is, however, a fallacy.

Reason is actually more a question of logic, which is the study of inference and demonstration. Logic can be applied to almost any system of belief and depends to a significant extent upon the axioms, or core beliefs, upon which one rests one's system of thought. For example, working off the axiom that the New Testament was true, a host of philosophers spent a great deal of time developing logical arguments that fleshed out and supported an extended philosophy of the world (especially starting with Thomas Aquinas in the Middle Ages).

However reason today is more generally associated with the scientific process, that is to say the notion of empiricism: the notion that evidence or consequences must be observable by the senses. People often do not understand that sound science is grounded in empiricism and hence tend to dismiss scientific findings that run counter to intuition or some tenet of a belief system.

The New Scientist article seems to mix "reason", "logic", and "science" interchangeably, but I would argue that the three don't really mean the same thing. It can be boiled down to the following:

1) Many people believe what they want to.
2) Memory tends to be 'egocentric' - people are more likely to forget details or data that contradict a strongly held conviction.

Anecdotes that support one's belief system, for example, tend to have much greater staying power than raw data which contradicts it or raises questions one isn't prepared to answer. Properly documented scientific experiments should have adequate controls and sufficiently detailed information so they can be tested for repeatability.

Although I generally like the New Scientist, I think this article is somewhat misleading and counterproductive.
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:23 PM
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Probably sometimes, people treat reason seems to be an excuse on that.
 
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:40 PM
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Watley: now there is a post worth making! Totally divergent from my light weight rubbish.
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Old 07-30-2008, 03:59 PM
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Nonsense... you brought up the subject! Not rubbish at all.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:50 PM
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*lazy to read the article*

But solely to answer the thread's question, yes BUT depends on who throws and made the reason! lol
 
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:36 PM
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depends on the subject... I hate people who don't accept reasons... and I hate the military phrase "Obey first before you complain"
 
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:23 AM
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What would be the purpose of meaning with out reasoning?
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:39 AM
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3: I hear "reason", I see lies

Science is routinely co-opted by governments and corporations to subvert people’s ability to make their own decisions, say sociologist David Miller and linguist Noam Chomsky.


so thats why i dont believe in reason.
 
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Old 08-01-2008, 02:09 AM
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i do believe in reasons, but sometimes it's really hard to reason to someone who always think he/she's right.....and you will meet a lot of people who just ignore the essence of reasoning.....
 
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:13 PM
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I Believe, But...

I think of Reason as a faculty that employs Logic. I don't think of Reason and Logic as being synonyms. In the case of Reason being a faculty, a tool that can be employed, what's to believe or not believe? Yes, we all have the faculty of Reason, but it depends on how you use it.

So I agree with Watley that New Scientist is using the 3 words (reason, logic, and science) interchangeably which only muddles the issue.

And I agree with

2: No one actually uses reason

If we had to think logically about everything we did, we’d never do anything at all, says neuroscientist Chris Frith.


and

5: Whose reason is it anyway?

Real people don’t live their lives according to cold rationality, says bioethicist Tom Shakespeare.


and I think they are saying the same thing. That we don't take the time to use our powers of reasoning to do the mundane things we do everyday. We don't need to. I don't need reason to wake up, make coffee, take a shower and play with my kids. I just do it. But when it comes to big things, like do I believe in God, I should reason with non-fallacious logic. (Or go with your gut, which I think is perfectly ok, as long as you recognize that that's what you're doing.)

Does that make any sense?
 
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potchie View Post
3: I hear "reason", I see lies

Science is routinely co-opted by governments and corporations to subvert people’s ability to make their own decisions, say sociologist David Miller and linguist Noam Chomsky.


so thats why i dont believe in reason.
Um. Why don't you instead apply your own critical faculties to discerning where, and to what extent, the science has been co-opted? You're essentially throwing the baby out with the bath water. Science isn't a political shell game. Take the time to make informed decisions.
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Old 08-01-2008, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
do you believe in reason?
50/50 depend on what and how the cause is

is correct that reason is a faith.
 
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Old 08-01-2008, 11:58 PM
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Reason is not perfect, nor is it capable of solving all of the world's mysteries. Equating it with "a personal religion" is, however, a fallacy.
well, reasons cannot solve all of the world's mysteries because reasons are not perfect. reasons are not perfect because reasons are just parts of the whole "Reason" but i think REASON as a whole can solve all of the world's mysteries.
 
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:28 AM
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well, reasons cannot solve all of the world's mysteries because reasons are not perfect. reasons are not perfect because reasons are just parts of the whole "Reason" but i think REASON as a whole can solve all of the world's mysteries.
Your posts seem to be like a snake eating its own tail. What do you actually mean?

I know its hard to use a second language and get used to a different culture but don't be afraid to actually say SOMETHING. That is what the forum is for.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:20 AM
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^it's so unclear....
 
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