Interesting happenings at Google - Page 3

janeth · 11-15-2003, 06:32 PM

Hi JohnScott,

Sounds like you think some sites may have been droped. Do you think if your site is gone for that key word then it is not coming back in a couple days?

**John Scott** · 11-15-2003, 06:42 PM

Janeth,

I've had my share of bizzare experiences with Google. They love to implement half-baked filters. Like, with Webmaster-Forum.net. It had PR7 and the number 1 spot for "webmaster forum". Then Google implemented its half-baked "expired domain filter", and webmaster-forum was drpped from the index for a month. The only reason it was fixed is because I spoke to GoogleHuy about it - but there are hundreds or thousands of other sites which were hit with the mistakenly applied "expired domain filter" which were not expired domains. Google doesn't look into each case. It just applies half-baked filters here and there, and to hell with the victims.

I have little faith in Google - but then I don't rely on Google for traffic, so it's nothing more than entertainment for me.

I would be hugely disappointed if Google started thinking through their filters before applying them.

janeth · 11-15-2003, 06:52 PM

JohnScott ,

Since it looks like I may be a couple months with out traffic who do you rely on for your traffic?

Sounds like I'm interviewing now.

**John Scott** · 11-15-2003, 07:03 PM

Search engine traffic is notoriously low quality.

http://www.internet-marketing-resear...-marketing.php
http://www.internet-marketing-resear...-marketing.php

Affiliate programs are good not only for traffic, but for building brand as well.

Mel · 11-16-2003, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeth

How will we know when they are finished?

Try Phils great Google Dance tool which allows you to see the results for a search term from all datacenters at the same time. When all the centers show the same results and don't move for a while, its near the end of the update.

janeth · 11-16-2003, 07:15 AM

Do you think Google has changed some of there ranking methods?
Does it still look like links are the big thing?

PhilC · 11-16-2003, 07:20 AM

Links always were the big thing Janeth. It isn't known yet what Google has changed. What is known is that the top rankings of many index pages have vanished. The fact that it has happened is an error on Google's part, and not intentional.

janeth · 11-16-2003, 07:31 AM

Mine was one of those pages how long do you think it will take Google to see this and fix it?

**John Scott** · 11-16-2003, 07:35 AM

I did a couple searches this morning and the SERP's are identical to the SERP's a couple months ago... Curious.

PhilC · 11-16-2003, 07:38 AM

We have 2 to 3 days to wait before we know how the update settles down. If the problem is still there, then we will have to wait until Google accepts that there really is a problem before they fix it. The last time it happened it took several weeks.

You have to remember that, from Google's viewpoint, if the serps are producing relevant results, then there is no problem, and they need to be persuaded that there really is a problem. They are not concerned with individual websites at all. They don't care if you were ranked at #1 and now you aren't in the top 1000. To them, that is an indication that the changes to the algo must have worked and not an indication of a flaw in their system.

If those index pages don't come back by around Wednesday, then we have to wait until Google is persuaded by the pressure of protest and submitted evidence.

Leader of Men · 11-16-2003, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Search engine traffic is notoriously low quality.

http://www.internet-marketing-resear...-marketing.php
http://www.internet-marketing-resear...-marketing.php

Affiliate programs are good not only for traffic, but for building brand as well.

Good reads John, thanks

PhilC · 11-16-2003, 09:07 AM

I've done some searches on different searchterms as deep as Google would provide results for - 1000 or less. I was looking for any listings of domain.com/index.(extension). In the thousands of search results I only found one and is was an index.asp page. There were a number of dynamic pages with name/value pairs attached, but only that one plain page.

So I wonder if Google has tried to unify domain URLs and their home pages this time - and made a pig's ear of it. Maybe they've only tried to unify index pages with the .html and .htm extensions, which would account for that .asp page.

burgi82 · 11-16-2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

I did a couple searches this morning and the SERP's are identical to the SERP's a couple months ago... Curious.

Not really. Search for direct tv, and you'll find my site in the top 10

(www.direct-tv-4-you.com), but that site is only live since mid September, and only receives traffic since about a week or two ago.

So, as you can see, right now, I'm not unhappy about the current results, but I also don't think that they will stay this way.

I, Brian · 11-17-2003, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilC

It isn't a backlinks/PR update though. Yahoo! is still showing the same as in the last few days.

My two bigger sites definitely showed a change in backlinks displayed a few days ago - as reported. I'll watch those, rather than Yahoo.

Quite possibly being listed in DMOZ could have affected things? Don't see how, but at this moment in time, I'm happy not to dismiss any possibilities - simply observe for them.

Gede · 11-17-2003, 05:14 AM

Did anyone see that the links to relevant Google directories have disappeared is the SERPs

Its a mess.

But my Bali-Portal is in the SERPS after a few months of blacklisting. With a PR of 5. and nr 29 for "bali".

But I am nowhere for bali villas.

PhilC · 11-17-2003, 05:36 AM

I hadn't noticed that, and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. Over at WMW it's like the Wall Street Crash to some people. Some have said they are going to report in sick today to avoid the flack, someone else is busy dumping all his link exchanges on the theory that IBLs are being penalised, and stuff like that

It's very important to some people. There are many companies who's sole trade in on the web, and who's biggest shop window by a very long way is Google. That's not because they were stupid enough to put all their eggs in one basket - they had no choice - Google is the only basket there is. Right now, some of those companies are wiped out - simple as that. If Google doesn't recognise their error, and they are usually very slow at doing that, then those companies will stay wiped out, at least until they find their way back up the serps - which may not happen.

It comes back to what I've been saying for a long time - companies that have as much of the market share as Google does, and that have the power to wipe out other companies and businesses at a stroke, should be held accountable for their actions.

burgi82 · 11-17-2003, 05:58 AM

Hi,
I agree with you. There needs to be a good alternative to google, because google just reigns the entire web right now. They can wipe people and companies out like it's nothing. Not good.
First, I thought that this update is good for me. I moved to the first page of direct tv, and I got some very good traffic. Today, I'm on page 4 or 5, and get no traffic for that keyword at all anymore. Just plain wierd.
But, I also saw that the owner of aaanimalcontrol.com, who is also a member here, and who lost his ranking in google about a month ago, is again number 1 for orlando animal control. I just don't remember who it was that owned this business.
Well, for me, I just hope that it all gets back to normal soon, and I have no idea about the way google currently ranks sites.
Just have to wait, I guess, eventhough that is very tough to do.

Mel · 11-17-2003, 06:02 AM

Couldn't agree more Phil, I especially detest those posters at that forum whose best advice to people whose business is being severely affected by this shakeup, that its their own fault for having thier eggs in one basket when as you so correctly point out its the only basket worth using.

It doesn't make any difference if you have your eggs in a hundred baskets if one of them delivers the majority of your business, a drop in that basket means halving your business and few businesses would stand up to that.

I shudder when they say Google owes you nothing, you have no contract with them. Google exists soley because webmasters build sites that people want to find and Google has made it their business to (without asking) list those sites with their opinion of their worth added. If there were no websites there would be no Google, much less than one that is comptemplating a 16 billion dollar IPO. And like it or not what Google does affects millions of webmasters, whose interests should not be subservient to Googles.

I sincerely hope that Yahoo drops Google soon so there will be a bit of competition, and even (much as I hate to see MS with a significant search share) hope that the MSN search engine is soon and is a success, since it can only help level the playing field.

If the playing field is not leveled soon, I can see some of the American consumer advocates lobbying for regulation of search engines much as other public broadcasters are. They are broadcsasters even if they are using a new medium to broadcast to the public.

Gede · 11-17-2003, 06:05 AM

I start to suspect that my signature here may something to do with being dropped for bali villas. Funny is that the stemming seems to have changed, and there is more stress on the first few words in the title.

PhilC · 11-17-2003, 06:21 AM

People are imagining all sorts of things, Gede, and link text is one of them. It may be that Google has rolled out a bunch of new things in the algo, one of which could be better link text handling.

If the link text in your sig in this forum is anything to do with what's happening, I'd imagine that they've done something to handle repetitions of links or link texts from the same source. I'd agree that it would be a good thing to do from point their of view.

I'm also looking forward to Yahoo! dropping Google, Mel, and any other engines, like MSN's own, appearing. The web needs a range of top engines again, to avoid any one of them being too dominant. We could have had a better situation if new engines hadn't got it wrong. E.g. Teoma started out as a paid inclusion engine, and it didn't make it. Now, if Teoma, and one or two others, would change to Google's model.....