Newbie Question...

[lemonowner]

Hi everyone. I have been reading forums like this for a couple of weeks now, and I must say, they have been very informative... you guys are a great resource for beginners like me. Thanks.

Now my question is this: I've been reading a lot of conflicting opinions about google's algorithm. I know that no one knows for sure, but what do you guys think the single most important factor is to get ranked high in google?

- For argument's sake, let's say that I wanted to get number one in google for a non-competitive keyword, and the site is brand new.... and not very good (I'm not a pro, just dabbling, experimenting, learning basically).

I ask this question because a month ago, I thought it would be literally impossible for me to get on google, but based on my readings on forums like this, I'm thinking that I should be able to get the number 1 spot on google for a keyword that only produces 4 or 5 pages of results.

Thanks guys.

ps, forgive me for the long-windedness of this, my first post.

[notepad]

What is the "non-competitive keyword" you have in mind?

FYI, positioning a site on Google has nothing to do with the number of search results pages given for a particular keyword/keyphrase. Really it has more to do with the competitiveness of the keyword/keyphrase itself.

In a nutshell, positioning a site on Google is two-fold ...the results depend upon on-site SEO and off-site SEO working together in sync.

On-site SEO is the combined search engine optimization applied to a particular file ...url's, titles, heading tags, meta tags, page text, image ALT text, and on-page text links. Off-site SEO is primarily anchor text links (pointing to a target file) which are configured to support the destination file's on-site SEO ...off-site SEO is further enhanced by the industry relevance and optimization of the page and/or website where the target file's link resides.

In other words, if you wanted to position a website for the search term, "american fascism", you would optimize a page for that phrase, then acquire as many inbound anchor text links to the page (using that phrase in the link) from other unique IP addressed websites (and directories) related to and closely associated with that subject.

Notice that I said, "links coming from unique IP addressed websites (and directories) related to and closely associated with" that subject ...this is very important; otherwise you could disassociate your website with its industry and target market. I would strongly advise staying completely away from buying site-wide text link ads (inbound links that appear on every page of another site) as Google now seems to interpret the practice as an attempt to manipulate her search results.

Tip: Since any page's title tag is the most important SEO attribute identifying a file's content, always endeavor to have your site's inbound text link (whether in a directory, or on another related website) listed on a page, or within a category that displays a title describing your business offering and/or your site's industry focus and theme.

Also, if you're new to search engine positioning, a common misconception (and false claim) is that you need to constantly submit your website to search engines in order for them to list you in their search results. Quite the contrary, doing so is about as useless as trying to convince George Bush that he's not the only person on the planet ...it's entirely unnecessary and a total waste of time.

In reality, search engines' spiders find a link to your website either in a directory, or on another website (one that has been previously indexed), then follows the trail back to your site ...indexing it automatically.

There's more to SEO ...like the number of quality, original content pages your site has (its saturation), etc. ...though the above pretty much summarizes the basic task.

Although no person, nor any method can ever (honestly) guarantee top search engine rankings, if a person diligently pursues their goal, in time he or she can most assuredly cultivate and maintain a competitive edge for their website on Google, MSN and Yahoo (the 3 most important SE's).

To be sure, having SEO knowledge is only a small part of the entire task. The real work (and on what the results will depend) rests upon the individual's personal inclination and determination to apply the information consistently.

Once you have a clear understanding of SEO, you'll see that search engine positions are cumulative and your ultimate success will hinge entirely upon your devotion and perseverance.

Whew, what a spill ...now what was that "non-competitive keyword" again?

[Buskerdoo]

Good post by Notepad.
Basically, I think you can rank for your "non-competitve" keyword. If you have a new site you will have to wait on Google. I really couldn't say how long it is right now...More than 4 months.

There is something going on with the Google SE right now. Until anyone really knows what is going on, keep getting relevant links back to your site. There are some theories that make some sense, but nothing definitive.

[Dave Hawley]

but what do you guys think the single most important factor is to get ranked high in google?

You need to think ranked high in Google consistently. There are millions of get ranked high, then dropped, banned or penalized schemes out there. For example, 90% of "text advertisers" sellers out there are praying on the ignorance of PR and link popularity in Google. The new introduction of the NoFollow link attribute will now make this undisputable. In time, Google, Yahoo and MSN, will use this to indendify the PR scam merchants.

There is only one tried and proven method that has stood the test of time and that is quality content and lots of it. This is the single best insurance agianst SERP changes and the best way to rank high in Google consistently.

[notepad]

Originally Posted by lazareth

...think ranked high in Google consistently ...90% of "text advertisers" sellers out there are praying on the ignorance of PR and link popularity in Google ....the new introduction of the NoFollow link attribute will now make this undisputable ...will use this to indendify the PR scam merchants

...huh?

...okaaaaaay, I'll get right on that.

[lemonowner]

Wow! Thanks notepad! I'm going to have to go back and re-read your post a few times to absorb all that info. Much appreciated.

Notepad, In the mean time, the keyword/phrase is "north york chevrolet".

Buskerdoo... more than 4 months to get "#1 on google"? or more than 4 months to... (fill in the blank)

[Dave Hawley]

...huh?

If you have a real question just ask. Otherwise your sarcasm is only displaying ignorance, especially as your post shows that you actually agree.

[notepad]

The phrase, north york chevrolet, is a very low competitive target term ...only about 63 searches last month across the overture partner network.

I suspect with a properly optimized file and about a dozen or so inbound text links (with north york chevrolet in the link) from automobile related websites, you could easily achieve a prominent, even dominant position on Google for that phrase.

I would also be sure to add additional geographic data to the page such as city, state, province and country location of the dealership in question.


...hope the info helps you.

[Dave Hawley]

The phrase, north york chevrolet, is a very low competitive target term ...only about 63 searches last month across the overture partner network.

Nobody knows the number of searches for keywords/phrases on Google, except for the top 10 they make public.

Regardless of the search term, number of searches and number of results returned you only need to beat the top 10. Check them out and work-out what gets them there are better it.

[notepad]

Lazareth, as you are quoting me about the number of searches, FYI I was referring to the number given for last month via Overture, not Google.

You are correct about reverse engineering top sites on Google in an attempt to duplicate their positioning success, however, you overlook the fact that not everyone is the accomplished expert as you purport to be.

I'm attempting to provide some good usable information here to lemonowner ...let's not contaminate the string with emotional outbursts ...okay?

[Dave Hawley]

FYI I was referring to the number given for last month via Overture, not Google.

Yes I know, but this a Google forum and the question pertains to Google. You even went on to state "you could easily achieve a prominent, even dominant position on Google for that phrase." So, I was simply pointing out a fact for others that read this post.

...however, you overlook the fact that not everyone is the accomplished expert as you purport to be

Sorry you read it that way, but that's a problem you need to deal with not me.

...let's not contaminate the string with emotional outbursts ...okay?

Arrh, ones own medicine is a bitter pill to swallow isn't it . That is;

...huh?

...okaaaaaay, I'll get right on that.

Classic case of an "emotional outburst" as was your "however, you overlook the fact that not everyone is the accomplished expert as you purport to be." One should not dish out what they cannot take themselves.

[notepad]

...a thousand apologies!!! ...you are superior O Great One ...this lowly reply serves as my humble tribute and allegiance to you and you alone ...I implore everyone reading this post ...let us gather our prayers in collective worship of the fearless, benevolent lazareth (also SEO master, junior web forum member, defender of the Google realm, philosopher, psycho analyst and all around great guy).

Your influence, wisdom and skill with the vB code knows no boundaries!

Forgive me O Great One for I have trespassed against you ...can you forgive me? My own fate as well as the rest of the world (and possibly this forum too) now rests in your most capable hands ...release us from our agony O Great One ...release us now!

[Dave Hawley]

You are having yet another "emotional outburst"

[Buskerdoo]

Originally Posted by lemonowner

Wow! Thanks notepad! I'm going to have to go back and re-read your post a few times to absorb all that info. Much appreciated.

Notepad, In the mean time, the keyword/phrase is "north york chevrolet".

Buskerdoo... more than 4 months to get "#1 on google"? or more than 4 months to... (fill in the blank)

I'm seeing at least 4 months to get into the top 100. As far as the top 10-20, depends on your keyword.

[notepad]

ahhh, now I see. This lazareth fella (his username yesterday) was really Dave Hawley, someone previously banned ...disgruntled, he apparently created another profile for the specific purpose of harassing members in V7n's forum.

...figures.

[lemonowner]

Originally Posted by notepad

The phrase, north york chevrolet, is a very low competitive target term ...only about 63 searches last month across the overture partner network.

I suspect with a properly optimized file and about a dozen or so inbound text links (with north york chevrolet in the link) from automobile related websites, you could easily achieve a prominent, even dominant position on Google for that phrase.

I would also be sure to add additional geographic data to the page such as city, state, province and country location of the dealership in question.


...hope the info helps you.

As far as the inbound text links, how do I go about obtaining the links? Do links from forums count? For example, if I said check out north york chevrolet , would that count as an inbound link? I've seen conflicting opinions on that subject.

Yes, the addition of geographical data is a good idea... I will do that.

BTW, how did you find out how many times the keyword was searched for?

[notepad]

Excuse me for giving my opinion, but your site appears to be just a long rant about you getting burned on some wheels ...while the target phrase you're going after seems to indicate a local automobile dealership in North York, Ontario.

I really dislike having to say this, but in all honesty your website will never make any money, gain any recognition, nor will any worthwhile webmaster desire to link with a website consisting only of few complaints by local car buyers there in Canada.

Don't you think it would just be best to move on with your life to a more worthwhile goal ...that is, rather than continuing to dwell in the past over an unfortunate vehicle purchase? ...it's not beneficial to your well being.

Okay, so much for personal advice ...on to your questions.

Getting links to your site can sometimes be tricky ...by that I mean you'll have to provide some incentive for other webmasters to link to you ...usually this is accomplished via a reciprocal link trade where you would create a links page and solicit webmasters to trade links (w/your site).

Another way to acquire inbounds (links to your site) is to submit your website to web directories, or in your case specialty directories dealing with the auto industry. Don't be tempted to get links from just anywhere ...make sure the site or page (where your link is to reside) is about your industry/site topic.

...forget getting links from forums ...they're not gonna help much at all ...and yes I've seen your sig links in other GMAC forums, etc. talking about your messed up car deal from November 15, 2003. None of this will help ...you've got to get down in the mud and get your hands dirty ...you've go to do some real SEO & webmastery work ...there ain't no narrow cuts.

You did create the text link in your example above correctly though ...fine job.

As for how to see which of your keywords are more popular than others, how many times they were searched last month (across the overture network, NOT Google) and to get additional suggestions for search terms associated with your gig, simply try: http://inventory.overture.com/d/sear...ry/suggestion/

Also JS has a helpful tutorial right here on the forums you could read for more detailed info: http://www.v7n.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7773

I hope I haven't been too hard on you kiddo ...I apologize if I've hurt your feelings ...I just want you to know that doing all this web work is very involved and time consuming ...I'd like to see you become involved in a more productive field, rather than spending too much of your valuable energy on a lost cause ...believe me, there are FAR more important issues to address in today's uncertain world.

In any regard, I admire your desire to help others.


...best of luck to you.



jb

[lemonowner]

Hey, no hurt feelings at all. I think that the website is a worth-while endeavor, and I'm not trying to make money off of it. And I don't plan on making it my life's work either. I'm just experimenting a little bit in my spare time.

As far as the keyword, it is a keyword with little competition, so I thought it would be a good keyword to start with just to experiment a little. I'm just learning, and with the knowledge I gain from this experience, I plan to apply my time/effort to loftier, more profitable endeavors. Having said all that...

Interestingly, the website is now #1 on MSN for that keyword... with only links from a few forums so far. What I find funny is that my site is number one for the name of the dealership "north york chevrolet" and the actual dealership site is only #5!!! -

Are you that sure that forum links don't help much?

That's what confuses me the most... Some people say that links from forums don't count for much, but as I just pointed out, the website (which is brand new) is #1 on MSN. Similarily, the website is now listed on G(dot ca) on the second or third page with nothing more than a few links from forums with the same text link.

Maybe that info can be useful to some of you guys...

BTW, regarding the directories... I saw a list of directories somewhere a while back in a forum like this. I recall that different users had different preferences as to what directories are the best ones to submit to... Do you have a list of good directories that are free to submit to that you usually use?

Thanks again.

[notepad]

I sent ya a private message ...go to your control panel (User CP) and see "List Messages."

[lemonowner]

Notepad, got your PM. Thanks!