Seo tricks

[John Scott]

William Cross/LR - It's common knowledge amongst SEO Professionals that the title attribute isn't given any weight. None at all.

If you want to pretend that you know something, go do it elsewhere. This is SEO 101 stuff, William, nothing terribly difficult.

If you want to pay me $170 per hour, I might be inclined to teach you real SEO, William.

[jonsimons]

In my opinion this forum is becoming more unfriendly... people are afraid of saying things for incase they get their heads bitten off by the moderators!!!! In my opinion they should respect their members more rather than taking them for granted.... their site runs off members!

[John Scott]

WilliamC / LR,

A few months have gone by, and still ALT text which isn't linked isn't affecting rankings.

http://www.beartoothkawasaki.com/kawasaki_closeout.php

This page has "kawasaki ATV" in the ALT text of an unlinked image and the words "Brand New" appear on the page.

So this search on google should produce that page in the SERPs. But I get:

Your search - site:www.beartoothkawasaki.com kawasaki ATV Brand New - did not match any documents.

Yet, do a search on Google for site:www.suzuki-bikes.com Our Supporters, and we get 120 pages returned.

Also, in another thread ( http://www.internet-marketing-resear...topic5793.html ) we discussed a search term that provides 647,000, most of those sites are ranked for that search term due entirely to ALT text.

So, we are still where we were several months ago. And Jazzee's statement that "It is my understanding that alt tags do not work unless the image is a link." is correct, and you were assuming, and stating those assumptions as fact.

[compar]

John,

I agree with you and Jazzee -- who could ever disagree with Sara? -- entirely.

To put it another way the alt tag is the anchor text for a graphic image. Google uses the relevance of links as the very basis of their search results. How could they possibly do this if they ignored the alt tag on image links.

But you sure have a long memory

[John Scott]

Just been up all night reading old threads and came across this one. Figured I should provide an update just to make sure future readers weren't confused.

In Summary:

ALT text of images in anchor tags: Very useful for SEO
ALT text of images outside of anchor tags: Useless
Title attribute: Useless
ALT text of images within an imagemap: Useless

<EDIT: Fixed typo.>

[compar]

Originally Posted by JohnScott

ALT text of images within a sitemap: Useless

That's interesting. I've never considered that before. Why should a image link on a sitemap be treated any different than any other image link?

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by compar

That's interesting. I've never considered that before. Why should a image link on a sitemap be treated any different than any other image link?

I have no idea why it is, just know that it is. :

[John Scott]

Oops. Not sitemap, imagemap. I need more sleep. I'm pretty sure sitemaps are , um, just fine.

[compar]

Ah! That makes more sense.

[SVB]

Title tag useless? (edit: i thought you menat title tags lol)

[compar]

John did not say title tags. He said title attributes as applied to graphic images. These are two very very different, but often confused thing, things.

In fact some people don't even realize that title attributes exist. Here is a link for more info. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/...tml#adef-title

[SVB]

ah right. yes indeed, those tags seem pretty useless :-p

[FGTH]

I agree with most of what John to say about using ALT tags for SEO. The method I use works and doesn't conflict with the original intent of ALT and similar attributes which leads me to this...

We all need to remember the original purpose of ALT, LONGDESC, and other descriptive attributes and that they are meant to improve accessibility. Improperly applying ALT tags for pure SEO sake without regard to relevancy and page structure diminishes the quality of content for everyone.

Text-based browsers such as Lynx and programs that read Web content for blind users do so in the same manner as search engine robots.

By properly applying these relevant descriptive tags to images and other components, everyone benefits -- users, site owners, and the overall Internet community. For those who understand SEO, applying SEO "tricks" can be applied without diminishing the quality or relevancy of Web content. The only risk is potential penalty; so why risk when you can be legit and still be ranked high?

Design with usability, relevancy, and accessibility in mind, and you'll do well regardless of the changes SE companies implement to prevent SEO exploits.

[compar]

I'm not sure what you are saying FTGH.

If someone is using an alt attribute with an image that is being used as a link won't that alt info be relevant? The use of an alt attribute as anchor text with the graphic link surely assures relevance. Nobody uses an non relevant anchor text. The whole point of anchor text, or alt tags in this case, is to suggest to the search engines exactly what the link is about so they can judge it's relevancy to the search term they are preparing a SERP for.

I think you are just reacting out of a bias that says nobody should try and influence the search engines. But if good anchor text or alt tags help the search engine find relevant pages hasn't a good deed been done?

And as far a readers for the blind go isn't an alt tag that tells what the link is going to lead to exactly what you would want? Where is the problem?

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by unrealfragmaster

Title tag useless? (edit: i thought you menat title tags lol)

Edited that post before I saw it. What did it say? And, yes, as Bob points out I did say title attribute.

[code:1:475d0aa3d1]<A HREF="http://www.v7inc.com" TITLE="Title Attribute Text Here">V7 Hosting</A>[/code:1:475d0aa3d1]

I've tested this on many occasions by inserting made up words, and then searching for those made up words after the test page was indexed. They don't show up. So, yes, title attribute is worthless.

[FGTH]

Originally Posted by compar

I'm not sure what you are saying FTGH.

If someone is using an alt attribute with an image that is being used as a link won't that alt info be relevant? The use of an alt attribute as anchor text with the graphic link surely assures relevance. Nobody uses an non relevant anchor text. The whole point of anchor text, or alt tags in this case, is to suggest to the search engines exactly what the link is about so they can judge it's relevancy to the search term they are preparing a SERP for.

I think you are just reacting out of a bias that says nobody should try and influence the search engines. But if good anchor text or alt tags help the search engine find relevant pages hasn't a good deed been done?

And as far a readers for the blind go isn't an alt tag that tells what the link is going to lead to exactly what you would want? Where is the problem?

Hi compar...

I think you need to read more about the origins of the World Wide Web and I didn't suggest that SEO is wrong.

SEO should be used wisely to promote content, but at the same time preserve usability, relevancy, and accessibility.

When I refer to ALT and other descriptive attributes, I'm referring to accessibility as intended by Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web. He states "the power of the Web is in its universality. Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect."

You can read more on the original intent of descriptive attributes at W3C's Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) http://www.w3.org/WAI/.

Wouldn't you agree that a page offering no pratical use for readers and serving to promote a site by loading keywords in random ultimately diminishes Web content quality?

Bottom line -- If you're going to optimize a page, do it in a way that doesn't diminish quality.

[John Scott]

Using ALT text for SEO and using it for enhanced usability are not mutually exclusive.

[ferret77]

I am going to agree with the alt tagged linked part

awhile ago I tried putting lots of key words in non-linked image alt tags and from some reason the site wouldn't rank, I took the text out and suddenly it ranked

I'm not sure of it was coincidence , the alt tags, or I just went over some sort of keyword density limit

but since then I only alt tag non-linked images wiht descriptiove alts not key word filled ones

on anohter subject keyword filled alts for linked images can work very well in inkotomi

[FGTH]

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Using ALT text for SEO and using it for enhanced usability are not mutually exclusive.

I never said that you should do one exclusively without the other.
You should always include an ALT description for a linked image, and use a relevant description that appropriately describes the target page.

I think most of you are missing my point.

Here's an anology. You're sitting in a theatre throughly enjoying a movie, e.g. the Return of the King, and in the middle of the movie Gandalf, Legolas, and Gimli start talking about New Line Cinema's next movie starring Ashton Kutcher for ten minutes. Wouldn't that diminish the quality and relevancy of the movie to promote the production company's next release?

[compar]

Originally Posted by FGTH

Here's an anology. You're sitting in a theatre throughly enjoying a movie, e.g. the Return of the King, and in the middle of the movie Gandalf, Legolas, and Gimli start talking about New Line Cinema's next movie starring Ashton Kutcher for ten minutes. Wouldn't that diminish the quality and relevancy of the movie to promote the production company's next release?

But surely that is an argument against links to allied subjects as opposed to the alt tag or anchor text.