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Old 02-09-2006, 12:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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michael martinez is sticking up for you john
http://www.seomoz.org/blogdetail.php?ID=802

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Old 02-09-2006, 12:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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or "Matt's Cut"

Sorry not very creative today...
lol, actually I like that one more!
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
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michael martinez is sticking up for you john
http://www.seomoz.org/blogdetail.php?ID=802
Well that will teach me to make noteworthy posts on other forums - they get all the links and v7n gets squat.

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Old 02-09-2006, 10:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I posted a somewhat legthy response to Mr Martinez. It seems like a good discussion, but I feel like posting a huge disclaimer across any discussion of the sandbox - the banner would say "This discussion worthless without testing or proof of any kind".

I hate those discussions. In other discussions, we can talk about ALT text and point to a test where a page ranked on ALT text of a linked image, and say, "there is proof", but in the sandbox discussions, there is no proof. Indeed, many people say it doesn't exist.
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Until a week ago I haven't seen any plausible explanations for what exactly the "sandbox theory" is based on. The problem that I have with the same old discussions is the amount of over-simplifications as well as the "but my site" arguments where everyone wants to be right rather than find out what exactly has been going on on a global scale.

I don't like using the word sandbox, because I believe in (and have seen first hand) many stages that sites undergo in their process of earning Google's trust.

Here are a few things I've caught from some of you guys regarding the s-word effect:

- The amounts of searches for a term will determine the amount of trust needed to rank for the term.
- The credibility of your site does not depend on time alone, but several other factors such as the importance of the sources that you get your links from, and also how your site gets indexed initially (thru links from where)
- Even when you have earned trust, you can lose it as well, and not by being banned. Rather you will have a "mini penalty" placed upon you that can get you back to where you've started, where you will be able to rank for a certain level of importance keyword wise - that barrier can't be broken, or so it seems. You won't even be in the top 100,000 until you have earned the credibility to reach that level.

Having worked with 100s of sites in the past 3 years, those things I can almost guarantee you are true.

Can the sandbox be beaten? www.thirdsquare.com was created 2005-11-27 and hasn't seen the sandbox. The links came in fast and naturally. No seo, no tags, just traffic from terms used in the titles and body of our posts.

The other thing is that sites which have been well established, do get away with a lot more than new ones. Like Dentists.com compared to new sites doing the exact same thing.

What's wrong with the regular discussions is the noise. What we need is some first hand examples featuring keywords, timelines, and events so we can corrolate and draw conclusions thru the similarities. Problem is that no one wants to reveal too much, so it often turns into a showdown of words rather than a discussion group based on substance.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:49 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Too much disinformation as no one really knows what it is. It’s like saying there may or may not be a God? (but which one?)

There is a Sandbox similar to your theory John and I have seen it in effect to one of my works multi million pound work projects, but it could just be that Google are slow to update new sites that get massive amounts of back links... however it’s still Sandbox.

The point is unless you are spending thousands of pounds or have access to many links (Same class C IP… I cant prove multiple IP is any faster due to lack of multiple IP’s)… you will not notice the effect.

The other non scientific proof that it exists is the demise of link buying.

Quote:
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The problem that I have with the same old discussions is the amount of over-simplifications…. I don't like using the word sandbox, because I believe in (and have seen first hand) many stages that sites undergo in their process of earning Google's trust.
I don’t believe it comes down to "trust" score from link analysis as the million pound site is linked mainly from educational sources! Sites are effected at all stages however no site drops as a result of Sandbox... the true rank is delayed (often around 6 months but always changes to prevent link buying costing value of links... or could just be Google updating!)

Last edited by Johan007 : 02-10-2006 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 02-11-2006, 04:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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hmm I've had many a sandbox discussion myself - I'm quite sure that there is some kind of age filter at work and most likely linkage, hence all the crys some months back when sites were slamming up links right/left/centre, whatever goes on its defense against manipulation and attempts to maintain relevance.

What I dont understand is, if people believe in a sandbox or even link penalty why do they run the risk and still throw up links - particularly straight away?
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