Losing all hope for one search term we CAN'T get into

[chrisandmeg]

Hello everyone. We are having a heck of a time, perhaps someone can help.

For months now, we have worked hard to get our pages listed in the proper Google keyword searches, and have had great results. We sell address labels and recently added stationery. For specific Google search terms, like "greyhound address labels" (or any dog breed), "food address labels" or "wedding address labels", we are on page 1, often as the 1st or second listing. The pages that come up are either our category page for that theme, or an individual label page. Really pleased.

With the search term "personalized address labels" our main index page is listed on Google page 1 towards the bottom, sometimes we move to page 2 as the 1st result...it varies from day to day. (On Yahoo we are #9 on page 1) This is a huge improvement for us though, we used to be waaaaaaay back somewhere, and we are thrilled with the placement.

However, no matter how hard we try, no matter what advice we follow, we cannot get our index page to show up anywhere with the most important search term of all, "address labels." It has over 3 million results, which is probably part of the problem, but, since we do so well with all the others, we are vexed none the less. Our main index page moved up when we worked at it as mentioned in the above paragraph, but not with this broader search term, which will put our business on the map. We are in the search results somewhere, but stopped looking after page 60...(grin)

We have a PR of 4, and trying to do better with more backlinks, which all don't seem to show up when you do the Google thing to find them. We wonder if that is a problem. Although, we had a PR of 3 last month, so we are seeing signs of improvement. Do you think it's JUST a matter of getting more backlinks??? We do everything the same with our index page as we do for our other pages....so...???

The results that come up before ours in the "address labels" search are frustrating. For example, the American Diabetes Association comes in on the first page, somewhere in the middle. They offer a free set of labels and barely have any keywords for the results, no anchor text...and their page rank is 4. Another one is a veterans group that gives free patriotic labels...same thing; barely any keywords, and their page rank is only a 4. So, we're confused.

Can anyone offer some advice?
Megan

[kwvarga]

Change title to something like
:arrow: Address Labels by ...!

and get <h1>Address Labels</h1> somewhere on that front page.. and most importantly backlinks with that text.

[chrisandmeg]

Thank you for your reply, theSpear!

Change title to something like
Address Labels by ...!
and get <h1>Address Labels</h1> somewhere on that front page.. and most importantly backlinks with that text.

We do have those things...don't we?!

[baldlygo]

We have a PR of 4, and trying to do better with more backlinks, which all don't seem to show up when you do the Google thing to find them. We wonder if that is a problem. Although, we had a PR of 3 last month, so we are seeing signs of improvement.

Was that a typo? or do you really think pr3 is better than pr4
theSpear - I am also interested in <H1> query - Does it make a difference if the search term is included by itself in <h1> tags?

[I, Brian]

Address labels is a specifically competitive term, yes? In which case, you are really going to need some good backlinks for that specifical keyword phrase. Get links - lots of links, and ensure the links use your keywords.

[chrisandmeg]

baldlygo:

Was that a typo? or do you really think pr3 is better than pr4

I meant that we had improved from page rank 3: "Although, we had a PR of 3 last month, so we are seeing signs of improvement."

[chrisandmeg]

Brian:

Yes, it is the most competitive search term of all the ones we try for. So, the only thing you think we need is links? We've got to work on that. What you stressed about keywords in the links is a tough one. Unfortunately, our name doesn't have "address labels" in it, so some companies we have linking to us aren't putting in "Address Labels", even though we put it that way as our title. We'll keep plugging away though, thanks so much for your help.

[I, Brian]

You don't need to worry about your company name in the links - you're linking to pages, not a company. For example, in your signature link on forums, use keyword links, rather than your company name: ie, "address labels" instead of your company name. A start.

[chrisandmeg]

Brian:

Do you mean that when I give the companies my info for a backlink, I would give them the title as "Address Labels & Stationery" instead of our name? I didn't think of THAT! I could always put our name in the description, like "Company Name brings you...blah blah blah" Hey, that's genius! And, I didn't know forums counted...I'm off to change ours right now!

[I, Brian]

Forum signature links aren't necessarily great quality, but's a little worth using - if nothing else, because you can.

[chrisandmeg]

Brian:

Good point...kind of like meta tag keywords! I can't seem to make our keywords linkable in the signature, do I have to enable html for that?

Incidentally, I just went to your site and it's wonderful. I will read about the 10 bulls tomorrow, as I just started studying Buddhism. I needed something to give me peace while trying to work on SEO!

[I, Brian]

LOL! I use that sig link here because I'm trying to force for that term through anchor text. Sig links is an easy place to use that.

As for enabling links: use the following syntax:

[ url=www.my-domain.com]keyword anchor[/url ]

HOWEVER: remove the space between each end bracket to make it functional.

[chrisandmeg]

Brian:

I've learned so much from you - the link text and now the sig link! Thank you so much.

So, is it really just the links then that I need to work on? I'm relieved if that's the case, because I really couldn't think of anything more we could do with that page.

I forgot to mention something in my original post. In the "address labels" and "personalized address labels" search results, I am always beaten by a company called "Heartland Paper Prodducks." They defy everything anyone ever says about SEO. They have no keywords in their title, none in their domain name, Google picks up their meta description, and they have a PR of 5. What the...??? It looks like Google is showing 44 backlinks, and since they don't show them all, they must have a lot more than that. They have no keywords in their backlinks.

What do you suppose is going on...they know someone in Google, right?!

[compar]

They have no keywords in their backlinks.

This is the only surprizing thing you say. Are you sure they are not using their keyword phrase as anchor text? Have you been to all 44 backlinks to check this.

Normally that would be the only explanation for their results. If you read elsewhere in this forum you will quickly learn that links are way more important than content and other on page stuff.

[chrisandmeg]

compar:

As I had read in this forum that a good way of getting links is to go for companies that link to your competitors, I have actually checked almost every one! They just use Heartland Paper Prodducks. What do you make of this???

[compar]

I don't think Google is seeing all the pages on your site. An allinurl: search only brings up 15 pages. Have you ever run the site through a Spider simulator? Try this one.

[samer]

try to get in the DMOZ directory - (www.dmoz.org)
and then beg the number one for 'address labels' to give u a link, or just buy it !

[chrisandmeg]

I don't think Google is seeing all the pages on your site. An allinurl: search only brings up 15 pages. Have you ever run the site through a Spider simulator? Try this one.

compar: I was unable to get into that one, but I tried another - it looks like my individual product pages don't show up, but I have no problems getting them ranked #1 or 2 on any results page...so, what does this mean?

try to get in the DMOZ directory - (www.dmoz.org)
and then beg the number one for 'address labels' to give u a link, or just buy it !

samer: We are in the DMOZ directory already, and there is NO way that site will give or sell us a link...we are in total competition with them!

Thank you both so much for your comments!

[samer]

buy advertising with High pr sites, like : www.phpbb.com

[chrisandmeg]

samer:

That soooooo doesn't sound like a good idea! Does anyone really do that? I thought unrelated links and link farms aren't necessarily wise.