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Old 09-26-2006, 11:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Google Copyright Issues

You know I've always said that Google needs to be careful in the way that it uses other peoples data (websites) in order to operate its primary services.

http://www.google.be/
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Absolutely ridiculous decision. You can just put tags in your content telling Google not to index it, and Google will obey the tags.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't think so. Google are using someone elses content without permission. End of Story. Why is it that Google think that they can get away with it when no one else can? Its because Google abuse their possition at the top of the tree.

The decision to make Google publish the decision on their home page is ridiculous but there you go.
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Old 09-26-2006, 02:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Aviva
Absolutely ridiculous decision. You can just put tags in your content telling Google not to index it, and Google will obey the tags.
I don't really agree with that for the simple reason that many people are not aware of tags (casual everyday bloggers that just want to share their thoughts with friends and family etc) and they have no obligation to be aware of metatags, robots.txt etc.
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Old 09-27-2006, 04:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Anyone have a quick translation and/or summary of the text on that page ?

http://www.google.be/
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Anyone have a quick translation and/or summary of the text on that page ?

http://www.google.be/
I don't, but basically is says: "We scraped copyrighted news articles from someones site without their consent and used this in our news feed. We are Google and so normally we do whatever we like but this time someone else thought otherwise and sued us. <cough>sorry<cough>."
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Old 09-27-2006, 07:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Heheh. Nice summary jg.

Google images, do they just take those images from peoples sites ? They display them on a splash page which have a link to each site its hosted on but they do display them initially in a way which surfers look at them and benefit from without benefit to the site owner whos paying for the bandwidth to dsplay them.

I've never considered this topic before, but theres a good point to it.
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes. We've talked about this before and seen some very different opinions. But basically Google operates solely on the fact that it ignores copyrights. Look at a page in the Google cache, if it says copyright somewhere on that page then Google are breaking copyright laws. End of Story.

Illegaly copied material? - Look at the bottom of the page: "All Content © V7 Internet Marketing"

Of course v7n or anyone else aren't going to complain because Google provides traffic, and even if they do wish to complain they can use robots.txt
to exclude the Google spiders from caching their site. This has always been Googles defence.

However, it still doesn't change the fact that Google's primary search facilities operate with the use of Copyrighted material. The absence of a robots.txt exclusion is assumed by Google to be equivalent to "express permission" by the site owners to use that material. Legally its not.

This case in Belgium was bought because Google used a news source without express permission of the site owner. Google as it always does - assumed that they could use the material because the site owner hadn't excluded their robots. The court found otherwise. Prooving (as if it needed prooving) the case that an "absence of restriction" isn't the same as "express permission".

A brief look at Googles attempts to make books available for search reveals the extent of the controversy. In effect, exactly the same laws apply. However the print industry does not think that it will benefit in the same way that website owners do, and so they are using basic copyright laws to prevent Google from indexing their copyrighted material for the financial benefit of Google. 'Brazen violation' is a typical comment about Googles indifference to the appicable laws.

Possibly, had the laws been applied in the same way to online content at Googles inception we would now be looking at a very different internet.

I personally believe that we would be far better off having a positive instead of a negative robots.txt exclusion policy whereby the robots.txt file was a list of allowed spiders and robots. Website owners would then have much more control over their content and how it is used.

Of course in this world, big business has priority over the lay man, and we all now to some extent "need" Google. Of course all this has had the effect that Google now has a huge amount of control over the web. Nearly all webmasters SEO their sites according to how they believe Google (and other se's) define a "Good website". If Google radically changes its policies tomorrow then you can be sure that the day afterwards you are looking at a radically different internet.

I also believe that this has led to Google "getting away" with things like Adsense, which - lets face it - has only been bad for the web. However people are reticent to "bite the hand that feeds them".

And so Google - for all its inovation - and its very public statement "Do no evil", needs to be closely watched, as anyone or any business with a great deal (some say "too much") influence in a particular business arena or industry.

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Old 09-28-2006, 01:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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But do you think that they are intentionally breaking the laws or are they viewing the information in an altruistic way. A lot of people for a long time envisioned that the internet would become such a force, that it would essentially make free all knowledge and information. I remember talks of this nature over a decade ago. Now I know that is rather optimistic of me to give the benefit of the doubt to Google (that is just the way I am) but Google could be trying to prod along this concept. Whether true freedom of information is a viable or good option is neither here nor there. I guess I wanted to point out that it is possible Google had good intentions.
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Old 09-28-2006, 04:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslaScotts
But do you think that they are intentionally breaking the laws or are they viewing the information in an altruistic way. A lot of people for a long time envisioned that the internet would become such a force, that it would essentially make free all knowledge and information. I remember talks of this nature over a decade ago. Now I know that is rather optimistic of me to give the benefit of the doubt to Google (that is just the way I am) but Google could be trying to prod along this concept. Whether true freedom of information is a viable or good option is neither here nor there. I guess I wanted to point out that it is possible Google had good intentions.
Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Knowledge and information is free (mostly) on the internet - as it is in libraries. Its still copyrighted though.

Also, Google may claim to be doing some sort of "good", but at the end of the day they have one motive; Profit*^.

* See adsense for example. That has only done harm in the interest of profit.

^ I'm a cynic, would you believe?
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Old 09-28-2006, 06:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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So can Google get sued for this!

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Old 09-28-2006, 10:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jg_v7n
^ I'm a cynic, would you believe?
You, a cynic... never!! But anyway, I don't see what the difference is... if i read it on my computer or read it at the library. The internet was supposed to break barriers, now there are just more laws trying to restrain it. I don't like that. The people who have used the internet over the past 17 years or so have been the ones determining where it goes. I just fear for where it might end up.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:09 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviva
Absolutely ridiculous decision. You can just put tags in your content telling Google not to index it, and Google will obey the tags.
In fact, that's the same as saying that we should have a burgler alarm and big locks on our houses otherwise thieves have the right to grab your stuff.

Imagine this:

Judge: So you stole those people's tv?

Defendent: Yes, but their door was open and I could see it in their living room, all I had to do is to grab it and take it home.

Judge: Ok, if that's the case you can go free, those damn people should have locks on their doors.

Or this situation:

Judge: So you copied that dude's book and sold it in your own shop?

Defendent. Yes, but it was in the library for anyone to read anyway.

Judge. Ok, how stupid of them, you can go free.


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Old 09-28-2006, 11:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslaScotts
You, a cynic... never!! But anyway, I don't see what the difference is... if i read it on my computer or read it at the library. The internet was supposed to break barriers, now there are just more laws trying to restrain it. I don't like that. The people who have used the internet over the past 17 years or so have been the ones determining where it goes. I just fear for where it might end up.
Well in that case, I should be allowed to scrape any content I like on the internet and use it for my own prupose and profit. Remember - Google makes money. Is it fair if Libraries charge an entry fee but pass none of this onto the authors of their books?
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well I don't understand why someone would have a webpage that they didn't want anyone to see. I read a little bit about the story of what happened on webpro news, and it seems that the problem wasn't that Google's robots purused it, it was that Google used what it found in a news feed. So I think it was more of a matter of how their information was used without their permission, rather than the robot purusing the site. Did anyone else glean this from the news stories?
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Libraries are free down here btw, nothing to pass on to the authors.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
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notice I didn't say read it on my computer or read it at the library to make a profit. I am talking about the freedom of information, something that is almost non-existent in the united states.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:26 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslaScotts
Well I don't understand why someone would have a webpage that they didn't want anyone to see. I read a little bit about the story of what happened on webpro news, and it seems that the problem wasn't that Google's robots purused it, it was that Google used what it found in a news feed. So I think it was more of a matter of how their information was used without their permission, rather than the robot purusing the site. Did anyone else glean this from the news stories?
They don't of course. I think you miss the point s