My Google Mystery

[kkibak]

I cannot figure this out at all.

I have been trying to target the term "throwing knives"

For my business, coming up top 10 on that term is crucial! I used to be #12 but dissapeared around a month ago.

I've done a lot of "on-page" SEO for the page I want to come up:

Throwing Knives

But for some reason it isn't in the top 500 listings even!

I don't understand why I'm not showing up AT ALL.

Here's the even more frustrating twist, though.

Search for "throwing knife technique" and http://www.yourbestdeals.net/Throwing_Knives_s/50.htm comes up #1. What the hell? How can I be number one for throwing knife technique and not anywhere in the first 500 for throwing knives?

Ahhh my headache continues and hopefully you guys can help.

Thanks,
Kris Kibak

[compar]

I think the anwser is pretty easy. First you have no reported backlinks to that page so the only thing Google has to work with is the content. Now there is probably a lot of competition for 'throwing knives' And without the help of some good links you can't possible rank for any keyword that has any competition.

In fact I did an allintitle: search and there are 1820 URL with throwing knives in their title.

But you use technique in your title and also in a heading on your page. Now I doubt that a lot of people are searching on 'throwing knife techique' and I'll bet you can't find very many if any other sites with all three words in their title. In fact I just checked and your's is the only site listed by Google that has all three words in the title.

In the absence of any links the title become very important and that is how you are getting your ranking.

[compar]

I use to own a throwing knife but I never got very good with it. You don't mention it in your technique but the knife has to rotate front to back on the way to the target does it not? Therefore isn't the distance from the target crucial?

Or can a good thrower adjust the distance travelled per rotation and hence always have the knife arrive at the target sharp end first regardless of the distance from the target?

[kkibak]

I don't know anything about them myself; my brother used to throw and wrote that for me in about 10 minutes because I told him I needed some content.

[kkibak]

Also, I know I'm opening a whole new can of worms here, but how do you recommend I get incoming links on throwing knives.

I've contacted the non-store links thats show up on google and didn't get a single reply.

My PR shows up as a "3" but I'm pretty sure google has it privately as a 4 or 5 because last week my google hits trippled after 4 or 5 PR 6 EDU sites linked to me.

[kkibak]

One more thing:

After looking at link:thetop ten sites on google, it doesn't seem that throwing knives is such a competitive term. none of them have more than 3 or 4 outbound links leading to them.. I really don't understand why I don't show up anywhere.

[glengara]

Noticed "knife throwing" has nearly twice the number of results but no Adwords, so possibly also less competitive....but probably a good source for links.

[compar]

Originally Posted by kkibak

My PR shows up as a "3" but I'm pretty sure google has it privately as a 4 or 5 because last week my google hits trippled after 4 or 5 PR 6 EDU sites linked to me.

Where did you get the idea that Google has a "private PR" as opposed to a public PR? There is no reason to suppose your PR is anything other than what Google reports.

I explained above what the problems are with your site. If you don't want to accept that, that is fine. But I think all you're doing is wishful thinking instead of accepting the facts and doing something about it.

Get some good links to your page. Get a whole bunch of links to your page. And then get some more links and you shouldn't have any trouble ranking for Throwing Knives.

[I, Brian]

Originally Posted by compar

Where did you get the idea that Google has a "private PR" as opposed to a public PR? There is no reason to suppose your PR is anything other than what Google reports.

Actually, there is a good point raised there - namely that the PR reported in the toolbar is almost certainly just for public consumption.

Google is surely updating PR on a constant basis, and this is reflected in the rolling SERPs.

If PR only actually updated every month or so when the toolbar PR updates, then we should all see a big monthly change in the SERPs, as per the days of "ye olde traditional Google dance".

But that doesn't happen - not anymore.

Therefore it almost certainly tells us that Google has a very real private tab on the PR worth on any particular page, but probably only updates the result publicly on a periodic basis to help keep the strain off the backroom PCs.

[glengara]

IMO, PR as we knew it is dead in the water, Topic Sensitive PR now rules.

[luchtzak]

Shouldn't the link be http://www.yourbestdeals.net/Throwing-Knives-s/50.htm with - iso _ ?

My guess by this you will go up in the searches...

[Gede]

Where did you get the idea that Google has a "private PR" as opposed to a public PR?

I thinks there is. Most of my sites use php, and dynamic content. I see that those dynamic pages have a PR of 0, but still rank high, as if they were 4 or 5's, like the non dynamic pages.

[Online Printer]

You really need yo work on PR...PR is everything in Google. Everyone with PR5 and less has suffered the most. Google's new algo is here to stay. It is, simply put, all about linking (voting)

[compar]

Originally Posted by Online Printer

You really need yo work on PR...PR is everything in Google.

I think that is wrong. Linking is everything! But Linking is about a great deal more than PR. In fact since Florida and whatever happened in January, PR may count for almost nothing as far as ranking go. It is of course a measure of the number of backlinks you have and the PR of the page they come from. But It has minimal if any influence on where you place in the SERPs.

What does effect your placement in the SERPs? The relevancy of your links. NOT PR.

[Gede]

Hmmmmm

there is more to it then links and PR.

After florida and his relatives, i lost my number 2 position for b a l i - r e a l - e s t a t e. forgive me the spaces, but I don't want to show up in the serps right here.

I worked on the site, and I am more then back....

Search for this term, and see.

No 1 result is a free redirecting service site, with a link to one of my other sites, that I still need to develop with 3 backlinks (wich i removed hoping that the site will dissappear) No 2 is my main site with plenty of backlinks...

[Online Printer]

I have just invested in a major backlink program...proven to increase PR. I have looked at the concept and it works but the price is high. It is kind of frustrating...spent all this time learning good web building manors and been successful until January 2004.

From what I have learned increasing your PR above 5 is not all about back links but quality of back links.

In my case I was #1 under "business cards" now I am number 3,4 or 5. If you look at the #2 postion http://www.business-cards.com/ they have a PR of 8. I have been watching them since Oct 2003 when they were PR4. In 3 months they have gone from 4 to 8...I'm impressed, and wouldn't you know they outrank me and look like they are there to stay. If you go to http://www.marketleap.com/publinkpop/ and enter their domain and mine look what Google sees...Their backlinking was purchased from one website.

Back to where I started it is a shame that our good techniques are less important but this is part of the game, I guess. I have elected to purchase a backlink program as well in the interest of keeping up with the Jones :wink: I will continue to employ all of the acceptable techiques I know and learn, they have to count for something.

[I, Brian]

It sounds like they've paid for Profesisonal Search Engine Optmisation.

[Online Printer]

This may sound like a silly question but what is a professional SEO?? Before anyone answers think about it. Would the answer be results driven in a given window of time? Would it be performance driven? How can there be professional SEO's when this is not something you can go to university for..."Hi I am a professional SEO graduating from Ryerson" Algo's and rules change so fast I can't see, honestly, anyone claiming this. And further promising results for money spent.

Since Google's latest algo RIP SEO. Link mongering is where it is at.

So son what would you like to be when you grow up?... a doctor, a lawyer perhaps a dentist no, no...how bout a link monger?

[I, Brian]

Okay, we should maybe stick to some variation on "link-building".