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  #1  
Old 10-19-2003, 06:45 AM
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LazyJim LazyJim is offline
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Your input - if you know what design really is

I am looking for people who know what design is.
People who know about the development life cycle.
People who have studied design itself.
Who who know how to create routes from a given problem to a well thought out and researched solution.
People that understand the importance of analysis, testing and evaluation.

We all know about many other people that think design means aesthetics.

I want to educate people on the meaning of design.

I need your help.

Please reply here, PM me or email me.

All your views, experiences, knowledge and ideas will help me.

I am slo looking for people to take an active role in the implementation and design of this project.
 

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  #2  
Old 10-19-2003, 06:52 AM
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Re: your input - if you know what design really is

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
We all know about many other people that think design means aesthetics.
It does, to me.

Its a part of it at least.
 
  #3  
Old 10-19-2003, 06:56 AM
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I'm much too casual to know much about these things.
 
  #4  
Old 10-19-2003, 07:05 AM
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Re: your input - if you know what design really is

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
I want to educate people on the meaning of design.
"Web Design" is just a word that has different meanings based on the audience and the stake holders of a project. I try not to get to stuck on semantics myself, as definitions change over time.

Project Manager is a much better job desciptive term to use than Web Designer using the definition that you subscribe to, as it encompasses the overall archetectural desions of a project. Just my opinion though;)
 
  #5  
Old 10-19-2003, 07:53 AM
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Thanks for you views and advice.

DaveyBoy: Yes I know aesthetics is part of design - I would slap anyone that tried to exlude it!

I know many people are only involved in single parts of design, so that part is what it means to them.

But I really think it's naive and missleading when people call themselves designers when the just draw pictures (for example).

Maybe some times art can be like design. You research your subject, you do make peliminary sketches, evaluate your concept ideas, and finally "paint the big picture".
Not spontaneous art though.
[I'm not saying either is 'best' - it's all still art.]

Anyway I'm rambling as usual.
Design is not aesthetics, aesthetics is just one of the many important factors concidered by proffessional designers.

A lot of confusion is created by the two meanings of "design" its a verb and a noun, but people who create the noun often claim they are doing the verb. Most of the time they are artists that create 2D patterns and call themsleves designers! [Sometimes they know what there talking about, for example they may design the design, - but these are probably graphic designers.]

Quote:
"Web Design" is just a word that has different meanings based on the audience and the stake holders of a project. I try not to get to stuck on semantics myself, as definitions change over time.
That's why i'm going deeper this time, to design not web design.
sure I will cover design in different contexts.

I will also need to cover titles and so-on as percieved by the customers or public. What everyone thinks you mean.
[I would actually like to chage that, but that would require explaining it painstakingly to everyone in the world! So I hope to have a reference that I can point individuals to when I need to explain, and the more peolpe that stumble upon my work with out me directing them to it the better.]
 
  #6  
Old 10-19-2003, 08:00 AM
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you really do care too much about something that has no importance.

I can make stuff look good, and i can place text in the right places and stuff like that. That's 'design' to me. Then again, i can if i spend time on it, make sure everything works on everyone's machines and whatnot.

So all in all, i consider myself a designer. You start with a blank canvas, and you put stuff down on it, make it look pretty and stuff, but according to you, i didn't 'design' it.

Confused to say the least, not that its important at all.
 
  #7  
Old 10-19-2003, 08:20 AM
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Re: your input - if you know what design really is

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
People who know about the development life cycle.
People who have studied design itself.
Who who know how to create routes from a given problem to a well thought out and researched solution.
People that understand the importance of analysis, testing and evaluation.

We all know about many other people that think design means aesthetics.

I want to educate people on the meaning of design.
That level of web professional is rare.



Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguyeddie
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
I want to educate people on the meaning of design.
"Web Design" is just a word that has different meanings based on the audience and the stake holders of a project. I try not to get to stuck on semantics myself, as definitions change over time.

Project Manager is a much better job desciptive term to use than Web Designer using the definition that you subscribe to, as it encompasses the overall archetectural desions of a project. Just my opinion though
I agree. Project manager is a better term. Every project has its own objectives, and those can be reached in a number of ways.
 
  #8  
Old 10-19-2003, 10:26 AM
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LazyJim LazyJim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyBoy
you really do care too much about something that has no importance.
Yes your probably right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyBoy
I can make stuff look good, and i can place text in the right places and stuff like that. That's 'design' to me. Then again, i can if i spend time on it, make sure everything works on everyone's machines and whatnot.
Making stuff look good is art and graphic design.
Placing text in the right places is graphic design.
Making sure everything works on everyone's machines could involve design, or it could just be copying and pasting some hacks (workarounds) of known bugs, or tweaking things after testing in browser. This process of testing and going back and changing is a recognised design technique, so in a sense you are doing part of design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyBoy
So all in all, i consider myself a designer. You start with a blank canvas, and you put stuff down on it, make it look pretty and stuff, but according to you, i didn't 'design' it.
You seem pretty clear that "make it look pretty and stuff" is part of design, but not so on the rest of it. How can you consider yourself a designer if you don't know what one is.
I'm not calling you a liar, maybe you are a designer but from what you have described, you aren't designing the things you create. I would think that if you know most of what I do about the D word, you would come across as a designer, but you're not at the moment.

I'm not even saying you should design, I'm just saying you should know when you're not practicing complete design you shouldn't advertise yourself as a designer.

Well that's my view anyway.

p.s. I don't want to have a go at you, or lose any friends here, I think you are intelligent and have seen you make good posts.
 
  #9  
Old 10-19-2003, 10:37 AM
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Re: your input - if you know what design really is

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
...
That level of web professional is rare.
Yes. Yet those type of people are those that, well, deserve the Designer title. That's what I'm getting at, the title has been devalued.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguyeddie
I agree. Project manager is a better term. Every project has its own objectives, and those can be reached in a number of ways.
My view of Project managers, are people orgainse stuff, set time limits and budgets, motivate the team and crack the whips, sounds boring to me.

Designers should take in all the factors including the budgets and goals set by the project managers, but a heck of a lot more besides (depending project).
 
  #10  
Old 10-19-2003, 10:38 AM
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LazyJim is my hero.
 
  #11  
Old 10-19-2003, 10:40 AM
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Anyway, maybe I can't educate anyone on the real meaning of design - as I see it.

Maybe I should be inventing a new term for those who's Design title has been devalued. Something simple like "Professional Designer" might be the answer, but the professional part should go without saying.
 
  #12  
Old 10-19-2003, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
LazyJim is my hero.
LOL yeah right! - about now I must be the most annoying person on here!
 
  #13  
Old 10-19-2003, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
LazyJim is my hero.
LOL yeah right! - about now I must be the most annoying person on here!
Nope. You say what's on your mind and what you think is right (I agree with you ). You arn't annoying in my book.
 
  #14  
Old 10-19-2003, 11:12 AM
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LazyJim LazyJim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by LazyJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
LazyJim is my hero.
LOL yeah right! - about now I must be the most annoying person on here!
Nope. You say what's on your mind and what you think is right (I agree with you ). You arn't annoying in my book.
cool
 
  #15  
Old 10-19-2003, 12:40 PM
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dont look at me, im a graphic design/visual arts major
 
  #16  
Old 10-19-2003, 12:53 PM
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LazyJim LazyJim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko
dont look at me, im a graphic design/visual arts major
Cool, now if you create designs for web pages, you need to call yourself a graphic designer not a web deisgner, that is what I believe. (You should wait till you have the qualifications though!)

What is majoring by the way?
It's an american education term isn't it?
 
  #17  
Old 10-19-2003, 01:33 PM
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well a major just means thats the kind of degreee you expect to get at the end of your university stay
 
  #18  
Old 10-19-2003, 01:45 PM
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are you at university, or are you expected to chose that subject to study?
 
  #19  
Old 10-19-2003, 02:12 PM
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if you need a good anlogy, a person who designs furnitur, i think that most people know that when , hmmm like Arne Jacobsen http://www.arne-jacobsen.com, designed a chair he dident just sketch something on a pice of paper and "pow" then there was a chair, he had to make a model, can you sit in it, will it hold the weight, how dos it look, where to put the nots and bolts, can the individual parts be produced and in what materials, who can produce it ....... and so on

it is the same thing with webdesign and i guess that is what you want people to understand, webdesign is just not as glamorous
 
  #20  
Old 10-19-2003, 02:40 PM
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good idea, it's like product design, the main difference that caused the problem is that productions costs are so much cheaper - if your time is not included, it can cost nothing - that abslutely anyone can make sites and market themselves around the whole world.

This is great, apart from when people that simply slap sites together and call themselves designers.

The different meanings of the word design also helped cause the problem.

I'd also like to analogise it to "Cowboy Builders" - I'm going to throw the term "Cowboy Designers" and "Cowboy Web Designers" around now!
 
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