Help! Accused of copyright infringement! - Page 2

AmySueN · 05-04-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToddW

You can not (C) facts.
You can (C) the presentation of said facts.

Make sure your design, layout, and structure do not copy theirs and you are fine.

Thanks, Todd. I was aware of her page when I wrote mine and was very careful to make mine different. Basically she's just pissed off and trying to piss on me.

corneo · 05-04-2008, 10:01 PM

Before you can sue people for anything copied, stolen, whatever on the net. You must write a cease and desist letter.
It is your choice whom you send it to. You can send it to the web site owner or the host provider. Most of the time people send it to the host provider and advise them that illegal activity's is happening on the servers.
Why send it to the web site owners all they are going to do is argue with you.

Now, from a business point of view. Once you get the letter you delete what ever they are bitching about. Why? Because it stops the issue on the spot. The complaint was to stop it and you did. Case closed.

It's not worth the money to argue your case in court (for either side) over something like this. This most likely was a scare tactic that worked. The reason it's not worth the money is because you have to prove you lost something of value and to defend it in court will kill you in attorney fees.

This happens all the time, all over the net. Depending where the server is located, that is what laws apply. Write a letter like that to a server in China, they'll just push the post harder to steal more traffic. LOL. A server in the US they will pull it. (you get the idea)

Ask you server how they feel about the matter and go from there. Most of the time they never give it two thoughts. Repost the blog and at the end of it put a disclaimer. (in my opinion works too)

Now to give you a very popular case so you can relate to what I am saying: YouTube. Before Google bought it. Nobody complained about the copy written material (Tv shows, movies) that were on it. Why? They made no money.
Once Google bought it and reported what they paid, they law suits came rolling in because Google has money. They got the letter and a case number at the same time.

txshellie · 05-05-2008, 10:48 AM

Hi there - so how is this situation going for you?

Have you considered scrapping the idea of a list of detergents and their ingredients and just replacing those pages with your top picks of detergents that work best for cloth diapers - perhaps sorted by regular and HE.

(Then you could rewrite your top 10 list and submit it as an article.)

That would be the best revenge <evil laugh>

I know that as the mom of cloth diapered boys, I would have appreciated that info - price per load might be nice too.

It's too bad that your competitor took this tact but perhaps the end result will result in something much better.

Best regards,
Shellie

AmySueN · 05-05-2008, 02:55 PM

Hi Shellie,

Thanks for the idea! I'm too stubborn to just give up, LOL! The fact is that I didn't do anything wrong and I refuse to be bullied.

I contacted another cloth diapering site with a similar chart and she told me some interesting information - she received a "cease and desist" from the same person who's hassling me but after she changed a couple of pictures the hassler was happy. She also told me that afterward the hassler changed her page to be more like the other one. Interesting, huh? Especially because the hassler updated her page AFTER mine went live, and now it's more like my page than when I wrote the page. (If that makes sense...)

Anyway, I plan to find a lawyer for advice and a letter to get her off my back.

corneo · 05-05-2008, 04:03 PM

kind of makes you want to complain about here post to her server people.

AmySueN · 05-05-2008, 06:21 PM

Definitely! Actually, once I find a lawyer I'm going to ask about lost income/traffic resulting from the time my pages are down, if I can get legal fees from her, etc. I probably can't get anything, but it's worth asking.

txshellie · 05-05-2008, 07:07 PM

Good luck. It just takes all kinds, doesn't it?

corneo · 05-06-2008, 12:25 AM

Please let us know what you find out. Regardless how small. This is a subject all web owners will go through some time in their life.

steveg · 05-06-2008, 03:24 PM

Is the other party actually claiming an amount of money, or are they just trying to get your pages down to bosst their own business? In any case, I highly doubt they are going to try and sue you, unless you have blatantly copied their design or creative work.

As someone else rightly said, you cannot copyright information, only its presentation. For example, if I were somehow able to discover that the sun is green on the other side I cannot 'copyright' that information - even though it was me that discovered it. After all, the fact that the sun is green is a fact. What I could copyright, however, is an article I wrote about the sun being green and how I discovered it. If someone copied my article I could sue them for copyright infringement (as that is a creative work).

So I don't think it even matters where you got the information from, only whether you copied (or even too closely based your design on) the other site.

I would not worry about being sued anyway and certainly wouldn't waste my money on seeing a lawyer. They will happily invoice you but are unlikely to progress anyone's interests other than their own.

What did this person say when you asked them what they objected to?

I suggest you take a deep breath, don't panic and try and resolve this matter in as simple a manner as possible. If the other site they complained about changed a few pictures to satisfy them, then at least we can assume the complainant is open to reason [however unreasonable they may be].

Hope this helps.

Steve

AmySueN · 05-06-2008, 07:40 PM

Steve - she's not asking for money, but has graciously offered to let me use "her" chart and review if I credit her and link to her site. Seeing as how the information is my own, I'm not in favor of that compromise.

Right now my pages are down. I want to get them back up and stop this harassment. My host is willing to put the pages back, but doesn't know if she can because the issue isn't resolved. If she puts them back he other party will most likely send another DMCA notice, I'd counter, then the pages would be down another 10-14 days. I don't want to wait, so I'm hoping that by hiring a lawyer to write a letter it'll show her I won't be bullied.

steveg · 05-07-2008, 05:15 AM

Yes I see the problem. Why not save the money on lawyers anyway and write yourself with an implied threat of legal action by saying something like:

"While I do not accept that I have infringed your copyright any more than you have infringed mine, I'm sure we can come to some sensible agreement between ourselves to our mutual benefit. (Clearly, I'm sure you would agree that there is no sense in us alternately issuing DMCA notices against each other until we both go out of business!)"

Could you offer to both link to the each-others site? That way she feels like she's got something out of you, you get another incoming link .... and hopefully your site is better anyway so you will get more business out of it, if anything

Good luck!

Steve

ewomack · 05-08-2008, 06:50 AM

When does the 14 day review period expire? Has it already come and gone?

AmySueN · 05-08-2008, 07:22 AM

Actually, the fourteen days were up on Monday, but last Thursday I received a counter to my counter-notice. DMCA doesn't say that we need to come to an agreement before my pages can go back up, just that the accusing party has 14 days to file in district court. Since I haven't gotten any notice that she's filed in district court, I assume I'm in the clear???

I contacted a few lawyers and the sticker shock prompted me to respond to her myself. I wrote up a 3 page letter with attachments. I offered to exchange links with her, and gave a gentle warning that I have certain rights if my business is harmed by a wrongful takedown notice.

I'm waiting on a couple of people to preview it before I send it. Feels like I'm in a soap opera, LOL!

Atl-FredRoe · 05-12-2008, 05:13 PM

You can't copywrite data. There are a million sites with all of the states listed. You don't see people suing to get that taken off. Take your data and package it a different way and move on. Change some of your columns, add a column or two, sort it a different way, and voila no problems with copying.

You can always check the internet archives to verify that you had the data well before she did.

Personally I don't really worry too much about copywright suits, more hot air than actual action.

AmySueN · 05-20-2008, 06:16 AM

Update:

In reply to my reply letter she called me. Turns out a couple of photos I'd Googled from were originally hers, so I was using her photos without knowing it. She still thinks I should link to her as a source since I was aware of her chart when I made mine.

I changed the photos, am redoing the page, and am getting permission from all the detergent companies to use photos from their sites. Eventually I'll have links to all the detergent companies as well as her site and the third site that has similar charts.

I'm miffed that she went through the whole DMCA thing instead of just emailing me to say "hey - those photos are mine please change them." If she'd sent me an email I would've made the changes, no problem, and it would have been clearer to me what she was objecting to.

So anyway, that's hopefully the end of my drama. Lesson learned: Don't use ANY Googled photos unless you have permission.

corneo · 05-20-2008, 10:18 PM

Thanks for letting us know the outcome. Good lesson for everybody.

busman3000 · 07-21-2008, 09:50 AM

Well I don't know much about this subject, I only want to wish you Good luck!

posylane · 07-24-2008, 07:21 AM

She was not going to sue you, at least she would not have hired a lawyer to sue you. Suing you would be $5,000 to get started and $20,000-$50,000 to pursue in a simple case.

And a lawyer is going to tell her up front that she won't win much for damages, since using her pictures did not likely make you a lot of money.

I currently have a newspaper (via a lawyer they hired) threatening to sue me over bad publicity. What is published is true however and they know it. They can only sue for harassment purposes.