Presidential debate

[Atom]

[littleFella]

docquesting,

I think John is right when he asks you to leave religion out of it. If you don't then you obviously are against democracy by asking everybody to make their decision based on eligious argument. Not only is this not a good approach, but may only spawn a new thread within an already new thread withing this thread.
Well, I messed up this one I guess.

[TGR]

Most pro-lifers (propaganda term) believe that a human personhood begins at conception.

I believe it happens a little further along during the pregnancy. But I'm not sure. Maybe when the brain starts functioning.

I think abortion is necessary in some instances. Do people abuse the right? I don't really know- probably.

Ultimately, society will decide. And I suppose that's how it should be.

But I don't think animals need to be raised in hell on earth and slaughtered for human OVERconsumption. These animals aren't even seen as alive. Why don't people don't seem to care about this!

[John Scott]

Okay, this is going to get involved, but here it is.

I believe in a social contract. An unspoken social contract. It says that nobody can harm anyone else, and in exchange for not harming anyone else, we protect others from being harmed.

If that makes sense... I haven't shaved in a day or two, so the hair on my hair irritates me and impedes my thought process.

[docquesting]

Originally Posted by littleFella

docquesting,

I think John is right when he asks you to leave religion out of it. If you don't then you obviously are against democracy by asking everybody to make their decision based on eligious argument. Not only is this not a good approach, but may only spawn a new thread within an already new thread withing this thread.
Well, I messed up this one I guess.

I am not being against democrasy as you say becuase this country was founded on what I said briefly. But you are right in that it would start another thread. Thats why myself and a few others have mentioned it would be good for John to start a diff section for each of these topics.

Ill try to leave well enough alone but when it comes to certain things lol. I dont think I would back down for anyone.

[docquesting]

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Okay, this is going to get involved, but here it is.

I believe in a social contract. An unspoken social contract. It says that nobody can harm anyone else, and in exchange for not harming anyone else, we protect others from being harmed.

If that makes sense... I haven't shaved in a day or two, so the hair on my hair irritates me and impedes my thought process.

John I will say this. It wont work for someone wanting to kill you.

Now here is where an idea like that would work in the gay marraige situation. Thats what a liberal democrat friend of mind sugested instead of gay marraige. He is a liberal democrat but thinks they should just have some kind of contract. Marraige is between a man a woman.

[Rivux]

I agree with docquestion (oh jeez, cant believe I just said that ) that abortion is almost entirely religious for the pro-lifers atleast. Murder can only happen when life exists, so for abortion to be murder then the fetus has to be alive. Which means the whole arguement is when do you believe it is alive, is it when its brain is fully developed, or when it grows a finger, or somewhere else? Most people get their answer from their religious beliefs, whichever they be, others let science answer the question for them, well others take another road. In the end it means religion is one aspect of abortion that can't be ignored.

[docquesting]

Thank you Rivux I greatly appreciate that. I feel it took some effort.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by TGR

Most pro-lifers (propaganda term) believe that a human personhood begins at conception.

I believe it happens a little further along during the pregnancy. But I'm not sure. Maybe when the brain starts functioning.

I think abortion is necessary in some instances. Do people abuse the right? I don't really know- probably.

Ultimately, society will decide. And I suppose that's how it should be.

But I don't think animals need to be raised in hell on earth and slaughtered for human OVERconsumption. These animals aren't even seen as alive. Why don't people don't seem to care about this!

TGR

The criteria for determining whether a thing is a human being is actually not up for debate, and it is not a spiritual thing or subjective to emotional or cultural interpretation.

A human being is an organism having human DNA. Sperm does not qualify as a human being because it does not own its own DNA. An egg does not qualify as a human being for the same reasons.

However, when the egg is fertilized and conception takes place, a seperate and unique human organism has been created.

If you are not going to use the bare-bones scientific criteria for determining human-hood, what criteria would you use?

[Rivux]

Originally Posted by docquesting

Thank you Rivux I greatly appreciate that. I feel it took some effort.

haha yes it did, my brain wanted to type it, but for some reason my fingers were struggling to get it out. lol j/k. I am sure we will agree on many things, just not religion or politics yet.

[docquesting]

Hahaha I bet if you were around me enough you would swing my way more lol. But lets not go there.

[TGR]

<nevermind>

[docquesting]

Read what John wrote TGR as he mentioned that doesnt part has no effect.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by TGR

Did I mention "human" or "human-hood"?

Um, yes.

[TGR]

I'm sorry, I should have left "human" out of human personhood.

[Atom]

Originally Posted by TGR

<nevermind>

too late..

[TGR]

I mean "personhood" as in an individual.

[Atom]

individualhood

[TGR]

too late..

Yeah, look at the rate of this conversation. 30 posts in 1/2 hour.

[TGR]

individualhood

Jesse Jackson should use that one!