Presidential debate - Page 12

awall19 · 10-10-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southnow

This might be a situation where the girl is certain from the beginning that she DOES NOT want this child for the reasons you mentioned. Newborns are far easier to place with adoptive parents than any other age.

so she should still go through with birth and the potentially suicidal postpardum depression it will likely cause even though she may be mentally unstable and do exceptionally self destructive things (that end up meaning the kid is screwed for life anyway) while the kid is growing inside her?

what is better, one life lived in a way it wants or multiple miserable lives?

if it was you that was raped would you want to birth that child and pay the associated medical bills and have a continual reminder of the trauma you lived through

John Scott · 10-10-2004, 02:40 AM

I think you underestimate the strength of human spirit. I know of a woman who gave birth to a child who was the product of rape, and she loves child. She has been raising the child for 17 years now, and they are a happy, healthy single parent family.

But really, Aaron, I'd like to know why you think you need to use such a rare and unlikely situation to justify abortion. Even if we made an exemption for rape victims, do you think the number of abortions taking place would decease by even .01%?

You have a lot of sympathy for the hypothetical rape victim, but where is the sympathy for the unborn child of the horny teenager being brutally murdered inside the womb?

awall19 · 10-10-2004, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

I think you underestimate the strength of human spirit. I know of a woman who gave birth to a child who was the product of rape, and she loves child. She has been raising the child for 17 years now, and they are a happy, healthy single parent family.

earlier you posted how rare that is and now you are talking about how wonderful the outcome may be. realistically do you think what you posted above is the exception to the rule or normal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

But really, Aaron, I'd like to know why you think you need to use such a rare and unlikely situation to justify abortion. Even if we made an exemption for rape victims, do you think the number of abortions taking place would decease by even .01%?

why use a rare example...if you fail to account for the rare examples then you are wrongfully restricting the rights of all. I forget the line but I think it is something like "when the rights of one man are challenged the rights of all men are diminished."

a girl I liked a bunch in the past almost killed her mother in the pregnancy process. her mom had her and it worked out well, but what happens when birthing the child has a high probability of killing the mother AND the mother does not want the child?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

You have a lot of sympathy for the hypothetical rape victim, but where is the sympathy for the unborn child of the horny teenager being brutally murdered inside the womb?

you appear to have minimal sypathy for people on welfare yet you want unwanted childred born into poor families (who are perhaps are heavily addicted to drugs during pregnancy) that do not want them.

John Scott · 10-10-2004, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awall19

you want unwanted childred born into poor families (who are perhaps are heavily addicted to drugs during pregnancy) that do not want them.

No. I'd prefer that people act responsibly in the first place. Murder just isn't an option.

Why not ask me this: A woman is raped and nine months later gives birth to a healthy baby boy. She doesn't want to raise the child. Should she chop the baby's limbs off and kill the child, or give it up for adoption?

It's an utterly stupid question. Murder just isn't an option.

And, yes, pregnancy as a result of rape is a rare occurence. But it does happen, especially when women do not go to the hospital and have a rape kit administered. But even then, why do you assume that most women will want an abortion? Most women, I'd guess, are able to distinguish between a rapist and an innocent child.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon...n_of_doris.asp

Aaron, you think abortion is ok. That's your opinion, and I have no problem disagreeing with you. What does bug me is when people try to de-humanize the unborn child. Admit that it is murder, and I'll have no argument with you.

awall19 · 10-10-2004, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

No. I'd prefer that people act responsibly in the first place.

I think many people who are hooked on drugs do not act responsibly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Why not ask me this:...

1.) I don't feel like it
2.) that has nothing to do with the presidential debate (the topic of this thread)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

It's an utterly stupid question.

yup...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

why do you assume that most women will want an abortion? Most women, I'd guess, are able to distinguish between a rapist and an innocent child.

why would you make your guess what they would have to live by. I suggest you go out and get raped and start birthing a child in your womb just so you can have a better perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon...n_of_doris.asp

wow, that really shows how warped that stern father, father knows best attitude really is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Aaron, you think abortion is ok. That's your opinion, and I have no problem disagreeing with you.

wrong. my opinion is that it is not my choice to make. I do not know enough to decide the answer to that question for all people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

What does bug me is when people try to de-humanize the unborn child. Admit that it is murder, and I'll have no argument with you.

what exactly is your arguement or purpose of argument then?

Ferre · 10-10-2004, 04:07 AM

Interesting to see Americans debate over things that are solved ages ago in my country.

Atom · 10-10-2004, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

Interesting to see Americans debate over things that are solved ages ago in my country.

What is the solution to abortion there where you are?

Atom · 10-10-2004, 04:27 AM

edit ..triple post

Atom · 10-10-2004, 04:28 AM

edit ... triple post

Ferre · 10-10-2004, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atom

What is the solution to abortion there where you are?

In my country this is a private matter and only the woman in question can judge her own situation. Abortion is legal here. So is Euthanasia and using drugs.

It's called "freedom of choise". something the US also used to have.

In my country the government doesn't have the jurisdiction to tell us what we can do or not, as long as we don't bother others with it. Having an abortion is not a danger for the general health of the public is it?

There is way too much government interfering with people's private life in the US, but then again, I don't have to live there and I never will, It's only my opinion. I have been to the States several times, stayed for months also and to be honest, it feels like a prison if you are used to our laws. Every time I arrive at Schiphol Airport it's like I get home from prison time. For Americans this is hard to understand. Since the 30th last month ALL foreign tourists have to let their fingerprints taken by American customs when they arrive, I won't be comming to America anymore and I'm not the only one, our travel agencies all have posters now warning for this and they recommend other destinations for hollidays.

We don't need that crap, Hitler tried to pull it on us once and we learned.

America changed from a free country into a fascist police state, all for the sake of 'security'?

Ferre · 10-10-2004, 05:55 AM

Btw, we also have gay marriages, who cares? it's a private matter between two people and again, who do they bother with being married?

Fusion · 10-10-2004, 06:11 AM

Mi thinks Ferre watches to much X-Files.

Fusion · 10-10-2004, 06:15 AM

Americans are nuts aswell like. I was watching them shoot at each other on tv last night, because one of the parties kept driving or using a neighbours drive for a shortcut.

Ferre · 10-10-2004, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion

Mi thinks Ferre watches to much X-Files.

Me thinks it's Cheney and Bush who do that.

SVB · 10-10-2004, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion

Americans are nuts aswell like. I was watching them shoot at each other on tv last night, because one of the parties kept driving or using a neighbours drive for a shortcut.

I was watching bolwing for columbine on tv last night, and its startling how messed up that country is. They had over 11,000 gun killings a year, where the highest in any other country was only a few hundred. And the KKK (or NRA as they are called now) blame it on "their violent history". lmao, America has a puny history compared to the likes of Britain or Germany

ferret77 · 10-10-2004, 07:54 AM

I kind of think that until the kid can live wihtout assistance its not really a person

so like the first 4 monthes its pretty much just a cluster of cells

so I don't think its murder, an I think netiher do the millions of woman who choose to safe legal abortions a year

here is a more femine view point

http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/be_gone.html

more femminst view pionts

http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/ho...eens_here.html

you know whats sort of strange about pro-life people is they tend to be pro-death penalty and pro-war

and don't see the contradiction