Presidential debate

[Atom]

Originally Posted by awall19

Thomas Jefferson
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature."

from a founding father...

I wonder if anyone ever explained to him that, that is because spiritual redemption is through faith in Christ son of God, not man or his conception of Christianity. This may be difficult for some to comprehend, but it's true.

He can examine the Word and Christianity till he's blue in the face.

And many do.

But that ain't where it's at.

It's as simple as hearing a very short and simple "story", and believing it with all your heart.

Preposterous!



Yep.

[docquesting]

Your right and that includes repenting and being baptized in Jesus name acts 2:38 which fulfils the great commision in mathew. Also being fillied with the Spirit I no I probally gona ge some arguments on that, but would you rather do what the Word says or your relegion. Relgion doesnt save you by the way.

It All goes back to keeping
The Ten Commandments.

[Rivux]

Originally Posted by docquesting

It All goes back to keeping
The Ten Commandments.

damn, guess that means i have to give back my neighbours sheep now.

[docquesting]

What ya doing with your neighbors sheep anyhow lol. I was a farmer so that ill leave well nuf alone so far as farmers jokes go.

[South]

"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other."

Thomas Jefferson. Same founding father.

[docquesting]

Aaah thanks South. I new certain folks liked to quote only what suited there purpose..

[awall19]

Originally Posted by southnow

"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other."

kinda a bit contrary to the stern father worldview which states people are inherently evil.

gay marriage is evil, et al.

[South]

Christians don't apply that inherent evil to Christ.

[docquesting]

Becuase He is God. God cannot sin. God allowed us a choice to serve him and we failed therefore we are all sinners. But God coming down in the form of Jesus saves us by his blood through baptism if we obey the Word.

[Rivux]

I've always been interested in how God views sin. God cannot sin, but he knows what sin is, and what makes something a sin and what doesn't. Is thinking about a sin in general the same as committing the sin (is that not a Catholic thing?), so if God knows what sin is, and thinks about sins, then he must be able to sin. or no?

I am not real up on my christian beliefs, so throw your comments in please, I am just thinking through this logically, but maybe that is my issue. lol

[docquesting]

Yes Jesus ect God Himself auctully said he who looks after a woman and lust after her has already commited sin.

[kiwidesigner]

Originally Posted by Rivux

I've always been interested in how God views sin. God cannot sin, but he knows what sin is, and what makes something a sin and what doesn't. Is thinking about a sin in general the same as committing the sin (is that not a Catholic thing?), so if God knows what sin is, and thinks about sins, then he must be able to sin. or no?

I am not real up on my christian beliefs, so throw your comments in please, I am just thinking through this logically, but maybe that is my issue. lol

Well if you're looking for "logic" in religion then you're in for a very very long search . "God" demanded/sanctioned "sin" in the old testament and then must have gone on Prozac or went to "anger management courses" where he changed his mind in the "New Testament" and issued the "thou shalt not kill". Quite a turn-around for such a 'all knowing' God. It's no wonder the faithful find it hard to live the live - walk the walk - when God himself/itself gives such conflicting signals .

One of my fav stories about religion is this one here:

[Religion : Sometimes It's Just Barking Mad]


One of the most bizarre historical accounts involving the papacy involves an event known as the Cadaver Synod. Stephen, made pope in 896, ordered the exhumation of his predecessor, Pope Formosus, and had him tried for alleged crimes against the church. Formosus had only been dead for about nine months. Stephen dressed Formosus' corpse in papal robes and sat it in a chair. Stephen presided over the trial.


"E.R. Chamberline writes, 'The corpse was provided with a council, who wisely kept silent while Pope Stephen raved and screamed his insults at it. The pretext for the trial was that Formosus, contrary to canon law, had accepted the bishopric of Rome while he was still bishop of another diocese.


"'But few, if any, in the council chamber, were impressed by the charge. The real crime of Formosus was that he had been a member of the opposite faction and had crowned 'emperor' one of the numerous illegitimate descendants of Charlemagne after having performed the same office for the candidate favored by Pope Stephen's party.' (The Bad Popes, 1969, p. 209)


"Formosus was declared guilty. His remains were dragged through the streets of Rome and then thrown in the Tiber. The effect of the Cadever Synod backfired on Stephen. Formosus' supporters, appalled by Stephen's macabre trial, rebelled. He was deposed, imprisoned and strangled to death."

Ummmm you gotta love it .

Karen

[Atom]

Originally Posted by kiwidesigner

Well if you're looking for "logic" in religion then you're in for a very very long search

Very very true, IMO. Interesting, the quotation marks.

[South]

Originally Posted by Rivux

I've always been interested in how God views sin. God cannot sin, but he knows what sin is, and what makes something a sin and what doesn't. Is thinking about a sin in general the same as committing the sin (is that not a Catholic thing?), so if God knows what sin is, and thinks about sins, then he must be able to sin. or no?

I am not real up on my christian beliefs, so throw your comments in please, I am just thinking through this logically, but maybe that is my issue. lol

Here's my understanding.

God cannot sin but he is the author of universal truth. In other words it's a sin if he said it's a sin, and we're given the lists. For the most part aside from sacrament related laws they are the same things most societies laws revolve around either on purpose or buy accident. That's the purpose of the 10 commandments. It's a nutshell. If you live by those 10 you're assured of not breaking any of the others.

Thinking of sin is not a sin within itself, but dwelling on it is. The concept is difficult to explain. Realizing that your friends wife is sexy isn't a sin, it's an observation. Obsessing on it to the point of fantasizing situations and wanting her for yourself is. The idea is that anything sinful you allow to consume your mind will be destructive spiritually and most likely will eventually be acted out in the flesh.

Before original sin, we had the instincs but not the knowledge of sin, so at that time we were unable to sin except through blatent disobedience to God.

Some sins is are misuse of God given, needed instincts. Look at a few on the list.

Adultery - God gave us a sex drive so humans would populate. Outside of marriage it's a misuse according to the Word.

Coveting - The desire for more and better makes humans strive, but resenting others for having it if you don't is a sin.

Since most sins are the result of needs and desires of a fallen flesh, He cannot sin because he's not subject to the temptations of the flesh.

He took the form of man and at that time COULD have sinned since he was effected by temptation. The fact that He didn't made salvation by grace possible.

[Rivux]

haha thats a great story, thanks for posting it. Though I will always look for logic in religion and everything else I do. I've never accept 'just because' as an answer to anything, including "why must i be in bed by 8pm" and "why must I go to the dentist". I think people drill into kids 'just because' as an answer to much, when the real answer is usually fairly easy to explain but grownups are to lazy to explain it. Sure this drove my parents mad because I required a detailed explanation before doing anything, but I think its served me well by not accepting anything just because someone says so. Religion included.

[Rivux]

Thanks a lot for that post southnow, it made a lot of sense to me, much appreciated.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by southnow

Christians don't apply that inherent evil to Christ.

no, but we use "God on our side" as an excuse to make right the inherent evils done by man.
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