Presidential debate

[Atom]

Originally Posted by Rivux

12 years of strict catholic schooling? You have my sympathies The closest I've come to catholic school was this older catholic women who certainly schooled me a few times. lol

Yeah, I've been whacked pretty good with some weird nun weapons, but you know what's really weird?

I swear it did me good to this day. Don't ask me how.

I was a rebellious little bastard because of it, too.

[South]

Originally Posted by Atom

"The fact that He didn't made salvation by grace possible."

Grace is something that has always puzzled me, even with strict catholic schooling for 12 years.

Catholics make it confusing by mixing in so much ceremony, hail marys, and such.

The concept of salvation by grace is really very simple.

The consiquense of unresolved sin is damnation. The atonement for sin is physical death. God has always cut humans alot of slack. We were able to sacrafice animals in our stead and that was justice enough.

Jesus became a perfect sacrafice, a sinless man and the ultimate symbol of love of God for his people. By willingly accepting death on himself for the sins of all generations, even though he was himself sinless, it was a suitable sacrafice.

Grace means you can't earn it. No ammount of being "good" will atone since we are sinners by nature and that must be accounted for. It's free, the tab already paid. You accept his sacrafice and acknowledge who he is and your salvation is secured.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by southnow

Yeah, but that's human jargon. It doesn't mesh with the teachings of Christianity.

of course not. if it lead us to question our leaders more often christianity would not be such a widespread religion.

[South]

Governments would attempt to squash it out you mean?

[Atom]

Oh I am quite familiar with the definition of grace, believe you me, but what I mean is the very idea of it has always been puzzling to me, naturally. I'm glad that you explained it here though, because I've a feeling that there are plenty of people wondering just what the heck it is.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by southnow

Governments would attempt to squash it out you mean?

religions which encourage any type of somewhat blind faith and hierarchical organizational class promote a ruling class which in turn find that religion appealing.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by awall19

religions which encourage any type of somewhat blind faith and hierarchical organizational class promote a ruling class which in turn find that religion appealing.

kinda like in some of the medieval age stories of how you either believed in the religion of the town or were kicked out of the town and left to starve...therefore god must be good because he feeds all those people in the town and those who do not believe in god live horrible lives in the wilderness until they starve to death. meanwhile the town leaders were living in extreme comfort, etc.

to a lesser extent the same crap occurs today, it is just not as blatent since the ability to record and redistribute (the web is powerful) history as it happens means things can not be anywhere near as blatent

my personal believe about all the conflict in the world right now is that some of the leaders know that they will soon have their positions challenged by people who are smarter, wealthier, and generally just better people...and they are scared.

all the crap that is going on in w the US right now is a last-ditch effort to consolidate wealth and power before evil people like me try massively manipulating the system and the social norms that exist within it.

consider that right now I am advertising for the federal election in swing states at a nickle a click. I have put my message out in front of over a million people reading related documents or searching for information on topics related to the election.

many thousands of them have clicked through for a cost of a few hundred dollars (so far). many thousands more will.

I am actively manipulating social policy to spread my beliefs and messages on the cheap. never in the history of man has a person as low on the social class structure and isolated from society as I am been able to spread messages so cheaply.

I can even set up self replicating networks that undermine the largest corporations in the world and run them at a cost of about $20 - $30 a year when they average hundreds of thousands of people finding them per year while actively researching those particular topics.

that is the power of the web.

I have been on the web less than 2 years (when I started I was nearly bankrupt with no solid knowledge of marketing, seo, or the web). now I am nearly debt free and have time to learn whatever interests me and capital to invest into changing any social policy I disagree with.

if I were a person in power running a bogus corporation or a screwed up government and knew that people like me were on the web I would be rather scared. and I think they are. I think it was no accident that bush talked down the internets.

[docquesting]

Originally Posted by awall19

I think it was no accident that bush talked down the internets.

I surely dont remember that. Of course it may depend on what side the fence your on wether you agree with that.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by docquesting

I surely dont remember that. Of course it may depend on what side the fence your on wether you agree with that.

they you did not listen to the debate last friday. no matter what side of the fence you are on he basically said the web has a bunch of crap on it and that people should discount stuff on the web.

if I were him I would have done the same thing, but I am not so I run adwords for his name and express my opinion that way.

[docquesting]

Yup Course I did that. I think your talking about when He mentioned rumers online about the draft starting up again. He squashed it as he should have. He was not being afraid of the internet as your saying. He just put an end to a rumor that democrats started by the two sentors in the senate or reps in the house. Its a fact that the dems started the bill so they could blame it on Bush. What a bunch of crap is my opinion.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by docquesting

Yup Course I did that. I think your talking about when He mentioned rumers online about the draft starting up again. He squashed it as he should have. He was not being afraid of the internet as your saying. He just put an end to a rumor that democrats started by the two sentors in the senate or reps in the house. Its a fact that the dems started the bill so they could blame it on Bush. What a bunch of crap is my opinion.

I don't think you were recently in the military but I and many of my friends were. have you heard of a stop loss? what do you think about the concept of extending you for one of the following reasons
a.) just for the hell of it
b.) because leaders feel the need to start wars that they themselves would duck out of

I can't even understand how anyone would defend the presidents military record or foreign policy.

[SVB]

Originally Posted by Atom

Grace is something that has always puzzled me, even with strict catholic schooling for 12 years.

Same with me, except Ive been in Catholic schooling for 14 years. When your surrounded by priests 5 days of the week you sort of get fed up of the whole thing

[docquesting]

Originally Posted by Stephen Bradley

Same with me, except Ive been in Catholic schooling for 14 years. When your surrounded by priests 5 days of the week you sort of get fed up of the whole thing

And I think that why a lot of people hate God, supposedly, becuase they are fed up with relegion and have not been taught just the Word.

I used to belong to a relegious order myself and it is no fun.

[G10]

docquesting,

I would say you are right on this. A lot of people hate god because they haven't been taught properly.

I understand why people dislike religion or god, it is because society has been killing people all through the centuries and claiming they are doing it for god. AKA - Crusades.

Oops - This is supposed to be about the Presidential debate and seems to have drifted onto something else.

[docquesting]

lol it always does Auctully maybe sometimes suposedly they are doing it for God depending on the situation like David in the Bible. But mostly they blame it on God becuase man is a sinner and quite a few have yet to understand what God really wants for man becuase they are not taught the Word.

[G10]

Again I agree - (I will have to stop agreeing or people will talk) :-)

"Ignorance is bliss" plus "a little knowledge is dangerous"

History totally proves it.

[docquesting]