Presidential debate

[docquesting]

not applied lol

[South]

Originally Posted by evilregis

I'm just curious if you could expound upon that. It sounds like you are saying that the war shouldn't be with bin Laden and that Iraq was the right war.

I'm saying Bin Laden and Iraq are both the right wars. Although 911 was the wake up call that started the machine, it's now underway. The purpose is no longer just to bring reckoning to the Bin Laden band, but to evaluate things as they are worldwide and recognize new threats BEFORE they get a chance to hit.

Saddam and his regeme never made it any secret that they hated America, our culture, and our very existance. I know the argument some like to make is that it's somehow our fault we're hated, but so be it, that's where it stands. It's also common knowledge that Saddam has had chemical weapons and WMDs (whether we can find them now or not) because the world has seen him use them on many occasions against his own people.

We also know that he lives within a culture that will go to radical means to express that hatred. Although his personal religeous beliefs seemed fair-weather, his country is filled with dyed-in-the-wool serious Muslims. Their Quran calls for the death and slaughter of non-Muslums.

quran 2:191
"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

This is a radical country with a history filled with international terrorism. We weren't real comfy with them having Chemical weapons and, again, we are big enough to be able to do something about it. He refused to cooperate so we took him down.

His connection with Bin Laden is irrelavent. We had a sworn enemy was told to show his hand in quick fashion or face removal. It was the right thing to do. If it's shown that another terroristic country has the capability of serious weapons the same should be done there.

If there had never been a 911, unseating Saddam was going to happen. 911 just got the wheels turning.

[evilregis]

Originally Posted by southnow

Saddam and his regeme never made it any secret that they hated America, our culture, and our very existance. I know the argument some like to make is that it's somehow our fault we're hated, but so be it, that's where it stands. It's also common knowledge that Saddam has had chemical weapons and WMDs (whether we can find them now or not) because the world has seen him use them on many occasions against his own people.

Okay, North Korea, Iran, Israel, Pakistan, India. There are 5 nations that have or are on their way to developing nuclear weapons. Iraq had some chemical weapons left over from his previous stash and used them when his power was threatened by an uprising. Whether we can find them or not? You can't because they don't exist and everyone but Cheney has admitted it.

So why Iraq? Why Iraq right in the middle of a war to capture bin Laden? North Korea alone is a FAR greater threat to your national security than Iraq ever was. Iraq was useless to fight a war, as you could see when Clinton's military swiftly went in and toppled Saddam in a matter of weeks. That was what you were up against. A threat? Apparently not.

And if it was a war against human rights (as he said it was when WMD fizzled out) what about Sudan? Surely the genocide going on there NOW is of a higher priority than that which has come and gone with little notice.

Originally Posted by southnow

We also know that he lives within a culture that will go to radical means to express that hatred. Although his personal religeous beliefs seemed fair-weather, his country is filled with dyed-in-the-wool serious Muslims. Their Quran calls for the death and slaughter of non-Muslums.

quran 2:191
"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

I can quote the Bible too:

After bringing the Israelites out of captivity in Egypt, God ordered them to attack King Sihon of Heshbon. So the Israelites "put to death everyone in the cities, men, women, and dependents" and "left no survivor." (Deuteronomy 2:31-34) God then told them to do the same to King Og of Bashan. The Israelites therefore "slaughtered them and left no survivor." (Deuteronomy 3:1-7)

Other Old Testament stories describe divine acts that are just as ruthless. The prophet Samuel gave Saul these instructions from the Lord: "Go now and fall upon the Amalekites and destroy them. . . . Spare no one; put them all to death, men and women, children and babes in arms, herds and flocks, camels and asses." (I Samuel 15:1-3)

Isaiah reports that on the day of the Lord's anger against Babylon (AKA current day Iraq): "All who are found will be stabbed, all who are taken will fall by the sword; their infants will be dashed to the ground before their eyes. . . ." (Isaiah 13:13-20)

Your religion is far more humane and peaceful. Do you even understand the roots of this terrorism?

[docquesting]

Evel this is nothing against you so dont take it personally ok. Just to bring out my point as I have aready that it goes back to the Word of God and to counter act the above statements.

Te devil can quote scripture as well. If he can anyone can. I dont want to be his side though everyone knows where that will lead.

Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord's side? Let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; perhaps I can make an atonement for your sin

That is what Jesus did for us. If we dont accept that here is what will happen.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

But those Christians who are unfaithful (Matt. 25:28-30) will have their rewards taken from them and given to those who were faithful, and, and they will be cast into "outer darkness," the place where there shall be "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

http://www.chuckhawks.com/judgment_discernment.htm

[MerlinX]

Originally Posted by evilregis

So why Iraq? Why Iraq right in the middle of a war to capture bin Laden? North Korea alone is a FAR greater threat to your national security than Iraq ever was. Iraq was useless to fight a war, as you could see when Clinton's military swiftly went in and toppled Saddam in a matter of weeks. That was what you were up against. A threat?

Why Iraq? Well, in the words of John Kerry...

"Iraq may not be the war on terror itself, but it is critical to the outcome of the war on terror, and therefore any advance in Iraq is an advance forward in that..." -- John Kerry, Dec. 15, 2003

Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real... -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

Regime change has been an American policy under the Clinton administration, and it is the current policy. I support the policy. But regime change in and of itself is not sufficient justification for going to war--particularly unilaterally--unless regime change is the only way to disarm Iraq of the weapons of mass destruction pursuant to the United Nations resolution. -- John Kerry, Oct 9, 2002

[evilregis]

Originally Posted by MerlinX

Why Iraq? Well, in the words of John Kerry...

No one is disputing any of what was said there.

What is in dispute is it seems funny to go after Iraq when clearly, there was already a war in Afghanistan, and moreso far greater threats than Iraq.

Yes, eventually something would have to have been done about Saddam. Right now, or a year ago was not that time and most certainly not in the manner that the president did so.

I think that it is a common misconception that those on the side of anti-war were madly in love with Saddam. You don't have to prove to us that he was a tyrant or a villain.

It was the timing and method of pursuing the war and the subsequent results thereof that have raised the ire of so many.

[ferret77]

sothnow it sound like you are quoting talking points

" It's also common knowledge that Saddam has had chemical weapons and WMDs (whether we can find them now or not) because the world has seen him use them on many occasions against his own people."

we sold him the weapons he used on "his own people", American chemical companies provided him with the materials , and we were more then happy sell him arms to fight Iran with

and all that bible and quran quoting is bull**** , those books and people who twist them into crazy ideologies are the where most of these problems come from.

"This is a radical country with a history filled with international terrorism"

last time I checked Iraqi was one of the most secular countries in the region due to the fact of saddam killing Muslim leaders who threaten his power

it was one of the few countries in the region where woman were allowed to work and walk around without bags over there heads

Do you think the Iraqis that we are fighting now had any intention of leaving there neighborhoods and heading over here

Does the average Iraqi peasant foot soldier have any wmds

obviously there are tons of extremist pouring into Iraqi but I don't think the average person in Iraqi wasn't sitting around "hating America"

what was the reason? we went there , or if you follow southnows logic we don't need reasons

do you understand how much this war has cost ?

do you understand that if we have more wars they will have to start drafting people?

[docquesting]

Auctully dude the democrats started the draft thing to use against Bush so they can claim he started it it. He has said he wants our milititary to be strictly volentary which is more than you can say for democrats. I am tired of folks who dont use commen since about things. As was mentioned above, am about tired of debating this stuff with them lol. Guess a webmaster forum should always stay a webmaster forum hmm. The only person I have any real respect for from the opposite side on here is evil. Outside of polotics and relegion.

P.s Now I am getting these threads mixed up hahaha. What about anyone else lol.

[kiwidesigner]

Yep I enjoyed it. Kerry was much more concisive and didn't ramble or extrapolate too much with his answers. On the other hand I think Bush looked tired by the 3/4 quarter of the debate and started to repeat himselve over and over which didn't him no good of course. So I'd give the debat to Kerry but not much of a margin though.

Karen

[ferret77]

here is anther link for you guys to read, perhaps when rumsfield who happens to work for bush says there is no link between Iraqi and 9/11 someone will believe it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6180176/

but probably not

[South]

Broken record..record..record..record.

Iraq bad. 911=Iraq bad. No 911=Iraq bad.

Iraqis and US shooting each other August 2nd, 1990

Iraq and US enemies, before 911....after 911.

No connection. No matter. Our problems with Saddam started long before. Our problems with Saddam ended with him in a rathole. Somewhere inbetween was 911.

[Fusion]

Smoke 'em out.

[awall19]

Originally Posted by southnow

No connection. No matter. Our problems with Saddam started long before. Our problems with Saddam ended with him in a rathole. Somewhere inbetween was 911.

neat concept there. ignore our support of him in the middle and the fact that our leaders BLATENTLY AND OPENLY DECEIVED members of our country to have us participate in needless MURDER and say it is ok because at one point in time we thought Saddam was bad too.

by your same broken logic anyone who ever commits a crime of any sort should be thrown in jail for life or killed on the spot. after looking over your own shady past would you feel comfortable judging yourself with your own broken idealisms?

[South]

Originally Posted by awall19

by your same broken logic anyone who ever commits a crime of any sort should be thrown in jail for life or killed on the spot.

??

Alright, the logic train has left the rails. I'm gonna bow out of this one for now.

**Edit**

Sorry, that sounded rude. I'm actually enjoying the dabate, but too tired to continue tonight.

[ferret77]

I'm not sure what the broken record is

our leaders told us saddam and bin ladin were connected , that saddam had wmd he was going to give to terrorists

None of this turned out to be true and 10s of thousands of people are dead and 200 billion dollars of OUR tax money was spent on it

I'm not really sure how ANYONE CANNOT see problem in that

I can kind of see the logic in having to beat someone because we cannot clearly and visible beat Al queda. I can sort of understand that . Just to show how tough we are.

But that hasn't really happened either, in fact the Iraqi war is probably creating more anti-American fighters out of regular people

If some country was occupying your country wouldn't you want to fight them

especially if they accidentally killed one of family members,

I know I would

[awall19]

Originally Posted by docquesting

Auctully dude the democrats started the draft thing to use against Bush so they can claim he started it it. He has said he wants our milititary to be strictly volentary which is more than you can say for democrats. I am tired of folks who dont use commen since about things.

when the words don't match the actions it is common sense to call the leaders out on their b/s

when one of Bush's daughters goes to fight in Iraq I will see his true dedication to the war on terrorism.

show your support, send your own.

[Whirlwind]

Awall19 your words sound empty not like you at all!!! stick to seo buddy!




I have a question:

why did you leave the US Navy?

[awall19]

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

Awall19 your words sound empty not like you at all!!! stick to seo buddy!
I have a question:
why did you leave the US Navy?

I have a question for you. why come here and make two ass clown posts right out of the gate...why register behind a yahoo email. be a man about your bogus comments and attach your name to them.