Republican vs Democrat - What's the Difference?

[Atom]

Not only are not even one of those millions of people useless to society, but they are society. Just like you are society. You are implying that society is something that is within the human population, but society is the human population. And I mean each and every person alive in this country and this world.

The first and foremost definition of society according to dictionary.com:

so·ci·e·ty Audio pronunciation of "society" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-s-t)

1. a. The totality of social relationships among humans.

These people that you refer to have social relationships among even 'your' society, southnow.

I would not have chosen the word 'useless', myself, because of the simple fact that it's not true.

[Atom]

When I did drugs and I was a useful, working, tax paying member of society, the dealers that were among these generations of the useless, were anything but useless, to me and many other useful, tax paying, working members of society. In fact they were extremely useful to me, and performed "their job" very well. They were just as useful a part of society as I was, despite them benefiting from a fraction of my salary and "society" not benefiting from a fraction of theirs in the same manner.

This is just one example of why I would not have chosen the word 'useless'. Simply because it is not accurate. There are millions of people that are not 'useless to society', just because they recieve welfare benefits of some sort.

And there is a reason why I chose an example like this, so don't let that fool you. ..

[Atom]

annoying
leeching
groveling
dirty
low down
scumy
lying
cheating
lazy
stupid ... etc

maybe..

..but 'useless' to society (themselves)? No.

They might as well all just up and commit suicide if they actually believed that.

Something needs to be done, yes, but referring to these millions of people as useless to society, is not the answer, and is not true no matter how much you are upset by the situation.

[Atom]

Oh... I forgot fat.

[Atom]

You know, I was reading over your post again, southnow, and I think I found a problem with another statement. What I'm thinking is: if it truly is the only workable solution, why hasn't it happened?

southnow quote:
"Welfare is government monitored and as such will never be handled efficiently

The only workable solution is to close it."

[ehman]

Originally Posted by PRBot.Com

I propose government get back to its role.

When my taxes go to pay for someone else's children's food, schools and clothes I have a problem with that.

Well, I can see that you have been reading too much Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.

Originally Posted by PRBot.Com

56 million people were born on welfare and 93% of them have been arrested for violent crimes.

23 million parasites live on welfare and do nothing but multiply.

I seriously doubt the validity of these figures, but lets see what you are implying-

So if 56 million people were born on welfare and if only 23 million people live on welfare that means that almost half of those born on welfare managed to find a way out of it. Even though most them were arrested for commiting violent crimes.

-----------------------

I think that there are many people who take advantage of the system, but there are also many people who genuinely need to use it. The key is not the elimination of the system but change the how its implemented.

[Ferre]

Compared to my country, Health care and welfare in the US are on a "stone age" level.

the US government needs to get it's priorities sorted out in my opinion, there is enough money to take care of all the problems in the US but as well the democrates as the republicans prefere to invest in weapon systems to bully the world more than in their own people's progress.

Check out the actual money that is spend on weapons and militairy and compare it with the amount spend on health care, education and welfare...America should be ashamed. There is no balance at all, the people get drained in order for the government to play war games.

[Nick W]

WOW!

I hoped i might get a few replies over night, but i didnt expect this many! - thanks everyone, lots to read, lots to think about ;-)

Nick

[Atom]

See what you've done?!

[South]

Dang Atom, I seem to have struck a chord in you with this one.

First, I'm not talking about everyone who receives "welfare benefits of some sort". There is a big stretch of highway between those who are working hard to feed a family and use some of the benefits available to supliment when the can't make ends meet and the HUGE chunk of the welfare population who uses that as the sole means of income with no desire or intention to live any other way.

I realize that the people are the society. I'm not discluding those people since they are as you stated natually part of the whole. My "useless" term comments on their contribution to the whole. Remember, I said useless not vacant.

You know, I was reading over your post again, southnow, and I think I found a problem with another statement. What I'm thinking is: if it truly is the only workable solution, why hasn't it happened?

Because you've got two lots of Americans fighting feverishly to keep it in place. Those who are quite happy living off of it and see its demise as a one way ticket to a job (the last thing they want to happen), and the liberal crowd who just flatly disagree with my point of view.

Even the hardest left liberals such as Clinton were forced to acknowledge a problem and so there has been reform. It's done some good at welfare to work but there are better things to come. You can't just delete such a widely used / abused program overnight with a single vote. Like anything else it has to be dismantled one piece at the time so dependants can adjust. I believe that it will be dissolved and the reform laws of the late 90s were the first step in that direction.

The fact that drug dealers provide a high really doesn't fit in as a positive contribution to society from the point I'm arguing. Yes they have an EFFECT on society, but there's no way to make it out to be positive CONTRIBUTION. How many drug addicts would describe their addiction as a positive part of their life?

I'm sorry we disagree on this one.

[Buskerdoo]

Don't u guys ever sleep?

[TGR]

Atom never sleeps!

A society that doesn't help it's poor is not a civilized one.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by TGR

A society that doesn't help it's poor is not a civilized one.

Are you Dutch?

[South]

Originally Posted by TGR

Atom never sleeps!

A society that doesn't help it's poor is not a civilized one.

I've decided not to work anymore. I'm not disabled or anything, I just feel like sleeping in from now on. As a result I will soon be poor. Would you prefer to send me a check each month or shall I just debit one of your credit cards?

[TGR]

Yeah southnow. Do you truly believe poor people are simply lazy? If so, I feel bad for you. You live a sheltered life.

[SVB]

Poor people here who want to go on the dole (to receive their money each week) are required to turn up to the Job Centre each week, and report with what they have done that week as to seeking employment. Any job that the job centre can get them must be taken, and as soon as any job is available, they dont get their government money anymore.

[South]

Originally Posted by TGR

Yeah southnow. Do you truly believe poor people are simply lazy? If so, I feel bad for you. You live a sheltered life.

I live in a welfare hotbed. I'm telling you what I see. No I don't think all poor people are that way as a result of laziness. I do know that welfare as it currently exists promotes laziness. It's the biggest "don't work" incentive ever laid out to mankind.

Liberals always come back to the "we've gotta help the poor" argument. I agree, but let's determine why they're poor. If your poor because you can't work that's one thing. If your poor because you refuse to work, starve if you like. That's choice. Aren't you liberals always supposed to be pro choice?

[South]

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