The right are a bunch of heartless fascists who would sell out their own mother to make a buck...
Hmmm, what a pathetic statement.
let's see. 96% of all the tax burden falls on the shoulders of "a bunch of heartless fascists...".
I think the leftist/socialists in this country (or let's just call them what they are, communists) are simply arogant and jealous of the success of the " bunch of heartless fascists..."
They ignore the FACT that the RICH pay 96% of the tax burden. They also ignore the fact that 80% of all shelters for the homeless are run by far right christians and that the far right give as much to charity to feed the poor as the federal government gives to parasites on welfare.
Now I am a hard core atheist, so I am not on the "far right's" side politically, just wanted to point out some FACTS which seem to escape the logic and minds of the communists on the left.
Another buzz they preach, these leftist communists, is the quote above about where the 50% of the welfare goes to. Notice how many groups are in that quote? Exactly! Its a smoke screen.
The department of human services in Chicago stated in 1989 that 13 million children were born to single mothers who never married, by several different fathers per female between 1977 and 1989 in Chicago alone.
So get off your communist blind horse and check your neuroticism at the door. Welfare is legalized theft, pure and simple.
Actually it's my personal opinion, as I stated right before making that remark.
Hence, my remark.
Quote:
Whats funny is all the people who attacked that line, but had nothing to say to the line right after it where I voiced my displeasure with the left. It's interesting.
Jeez, you want me to argue both sides? I can't type that fast.
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Come on John, you can't really believe that. So you think that the more then 200 BILLION dollars spent on the elderly and disabled each year is only spent because their family doesn't want to take care of them. But if that money was completely removed then all of a sudden the families would be willing and able to take care of them?
What expense are you referring to? Welfare in most states I've been in is an entirely different thing from Medicare and the Social Security administation.
States operate welfare systems. The Federal Gov't operates Medicare and SSN.
I have no problem with the care the elderly and disable get, because its paid for by SSN.
let's see. 96% of all the tax burden falls on the shoulders of "a bunch of heartless fascists...".
I think the leftist/socialists in this country (or let's just call them what they are, communists) are simply arogant and jealous of the success of the " bunch of heartless fascists..."
They ignore the FACT that the RICH pay 96% of the tax burden. They also ignore the fact that 80% of all shelters for the homeless are run by far right christians and that the far right give as much to charity to feed the poor as the federal government gives to parasites on welfare.
Oh oh this is getting good. Ok let me state this one more time guess I guess people missed it the first time. What I said about both the left and the right in that 'opinion piece' was just that, my opinion. And not ALL opinions need to be based entirely on fact, kind of like all the people who believe in a god sans facts. There are such things as faiths and beliefs that go outside of hard facts. So my statement regarding the left (hippie tree huggers) and right (heartless fascist) was my general feeling towards those two groups, they were not based on any facts, just my opinion. As I so clearly outlined in the sentence right before I made those comments. Are we clear on that now?
As for your facts, I am sure they are true. I may not have the same beliefs as you but I don't figure you out to be a liar, so yes, what you say is true. But it doesn't prove anything really, you arguement style reminds me of Dubyas. Because I make a general statement about one area, you take it as being an exclusive statement, that somehow because I think most republicans are fascists that I don't think Christians help other people or that there aren't a lot of really good and helpful right wing people, that just isn't true. A statement is considered a general statment when it applies to some but not all, it is not an exclusionary statement. So if you want to come at me with facts to disprove something, you should actually try to disprove something that I don't agree with you on. Because I agree that lots of christians help others and that the rich pay the vast majortiy of the taxes, that isnt the arguement here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBot.Com
Another buzz they preach, these leftist communists, is the quote above about where the 50% of the welfare goes to. Notice how many groups are in that quote? Exactly! Its a smoke screen.
Which 50% are you referring to, the eldery/disabled 50 or the single parent 50? I think those are two fairly small groups actually.
What expense are you referring to? Welfare in most states I've been in is an entirely different thing from Medicare and the Social Security administation.
States operate welfare systems. The Federal Gov't operates Medicare and SSN.
I have no problem with the care the elderly and disable get, because its paid for by SSN.
As was quoted from The Heritage Foundation*, welfare is medical, social services, education and training as well as cash payouts. It is all included under the welfare umbrella which is both state and federal funded (71.6% federal, 28.4% state).
Sometimes I get the feeling when discussion like this happen that some people miss the point of others. I think most of us (sans PRbot) agree that some form of social assistance is necesasry, to help the elderly, handicapped, those that are truly in need of assistance, who need the help and want to be helped. I think we can also agree that there are a group of people who abuse the system, who just want a free check, dont want to work for a living and exploit the system. Those people need to be removed the welfare system as quickly as possibl,e I don't want to support and I dont think anyone else does.
The arguement as I've seen it so far between PRbot and myself is that he wants to abolish the welfare system entirely, where I think some welfare system is needed to help the unfortunate as I mentioned above.
Rivux, don't get too upset here. I personally enjoy the fact that a guy in Canada would take the time to debate about US politics...ofcourse it is to your best interest to pay attention since the us economy and $ keeps Canada going, not to mention all the military protection Canda's gotten over the years.
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Rivux, don't get too upset here. I personally enjoy the fact that a guy in Canada would take the time to debate about US politics...ofcourse it is to your best interest to pay attention since the us economy and $ keeps Canada going, not to mention all the military protection Canda's gotten over the years.
Oh I wasn't upset, I should have put a smiley face. I was excited that PRbot was really getting into it.
I think Canadians are conerned about US politics because as you said it has a big impact on our economy and way of life. But it also is a great debate because we don't have the same issues in Canada (atleast to the same extent), Canada is so central right now that neither the NDP or the PC (or is that just a C now) have a chance at beating the Liberals anytime soon. though the Conservatives did make a good run at it this year.
Rivux you may be right that people start misunderstanding the intent of postings so let me clear something up.
I know you said above that you don't support people freeloading on the welfare system, but your other comments make me wonder if you understand just how bad it is.
The generations of welfare-dependant families have bred more than just millions of people useless to society. The arrogance and violence it creates is staggering. It's a very "give me my money and shut up" attitude. The same person being given a part of the money you worked for all month is also likely the one who stole your four wheeler from your yard. You're good at finding stats. What percentage of prison inmates came up in the welfare system?
The "good things" welfare is supposedly doing such as providing money for kids too young to have options are completely inefective. You see them in line in the grocery stores buying groceries with EBT cards. The kids are often skinny, dirty, clothes tattered, and rude, unruly and abuseive due to no parental concern, but in the parking lot the groceries are loaded into a brand new Ford SUV with aftermarket rims and tires.
No one wants old and disabled people cold and hungry, but the welfare system as a whole breeds a lot of anger and resentment. Even the assistance programs you referred to are abused to the point of rediculous. It's common practice for those who have truly mastered the art of welfare manipulation (and there are millions of them) to draw disability targeted welfare even though they are able-bodied.
Welfare is government monitored and as such will never be handled efficiently
The only workable solution is to close it. It's really not the place of the American government to demand tax payers fund it. America is a working system but it is a little cold. You can get as rich as you like or starve to death...your choice.
What about those in real need who have no choice?
Hundreds of private charities raising hundreds of millions of dollars primarily through donations prove that people will willingly step up and help where there is genuine need. Take away the crippling septic tank of government sponsored welfare and people will step up and help those who need it but effectively weed out those who don't.
What I'm saying is that we probably aren't that far apart when viewing welfare, but in how we see the solution. To allow it to continue for the sake of the needy causes the cancer to grow and grow. Privitization is always better.
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I agree with you 100% southnow good post. And I think that is what divides most of the left/right, is how the programs are administered. I am not against the privatization of programs, though they do have their own issues just as public run programs do. I think what it comes down to for me is that I am willing to put up with some abuse of the system IF it does accomplish its primary goal, which is to take care of those that need it. What scares me about the removal of public welfare is that it will be so efficient that it will actually weed out people who do need it (if that makes sense). I guess its just whichever end you are willing to lose out on.
You are right though, we aren't that far apart, its really just about administration. lol
Rivux you may be right that people start misunderstanding the intent of postings so let me clear something up.
I know you said above that you don't support people freeloading on the welfare system, but your other comments make me wonder if you understand just how bad it is.
The generations of welfare-dependant families have bred more than just millions of people useless to society. The arrogance and violence it creates is staggering. It's a very "give me my money and shut up" attitude. The same person being given a part of the money you worked for all month is also likely the one who stole your four wheeler from your yard. You're good at finding stats. What percentage of prison inmates came up in the welfare system?
The "good things" welfare is supposedly doing such as providing money for kids too young to have options are completely inefective. You see them in line in the grocery stores buying groceries with EBT cards. The kids are often skinny, dirty, clothes tattered, and rude, unruly and abuseive due to no parental concern, but in the parking lot the groceries are loaded into a brand new Ford SUV with aftermarket rims and tires.
No one wants old and disabled people cold and hungry, but the welfare system as a whole breeds a lot of anger and resentment. Even the assistance programs you referred to are abused to the point of rediculous. It's common practice for those who have truly mastered the art of welfare manipulation (and there are millions of them) to draw disability targeted welfare even though they are able-bodied.
Welfare is government monitored and as such will never be handled efficiently
The only workable solution is to close it. It's really not the place of the American government to demand tax payers fund it. America is a working system but it is a little cold. You can get as rich as you like or starve to death...your choice.
What about those in real need who have no choice?
Hundreds of private charities raising hundreds of millions of dollars primarily through donations prove that people will willingly step up and help where there is genuine need. Take away the crippling septic tank of government sponsored welfare and people will step up and help those who need it but effectively weed out those who don't.
What I'm saying is that we probably aren't that far apart when viewing welfare, but in how we see the solution. To allow it to continue for the sake of the needy causes the cancer to grow and grow. Privitization is always better.
This seems to pretty much make sense to me, southnow, except for this statement:
"The generations of welfare-dependant families have bred more than just millions of people useless to society."
I would not have chosen the word 'useless' in this statement.
This seems to pretty much make sense to me, southnow, except for this statement:
"The generations of welfare-dependant families have bred more than just millions of people useless to society."
I'm not taking away from anyone's value as a human as I believe all human life holds value. Value within a society, however, is about contribution. I think that anyone who by choice refuses to add themselves to the machine and opts to leech off of others is useless to the society.
Our local recycling plant is staffed by "High Hope". These are all mentally retarted men and women. Some are very retarted at about a 2nd or third grade level. Thier job is to sort cans and newspapers, a lowly job by many standards, but they've been given the chance to hold a position of value in society's structure and you can see the joy.
For an able-bodied, able-minded person to choose sorriness is pathetic.
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He that lives upon hope will die fasting. ~ Benjamin Franklin
