Bin Laden Transcript

Rivux · 11-01-2004, 09:48 PM

For those who are interested, they have released the full transcript of the latest Bin Laden tape.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_art...he%20New%20War

I think Bush is very lucky that this was released so soon to the election, 1 day isn't enough for people to realize what was said on the tape. Regardless of whether it is all true or not, there are lots of damaging quotes from Bin Laden that would have made for great talking points.

A couple of my favourite are:

"It never occurred to us that the Command-in-Chief of the American Armed Forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone at the time when they most needed him. But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers we were given three times the period required to execute the operations"

and while talking about his goal to bankrupt the US as they did Russia

"(US Government) has helped al-Qa'ida to achieve those enormous results. And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States even if the intentions differ"

I think the most important lines of all though talk about why he did it "The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that". And how it can be stopped " ... your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qa'ida. No, your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security, has automatically guaranteed its own security."

**John Scott** · 11-01-2004, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivux

For those who are interested, they have released the full transcript of the latest Bin Laden tape.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_art...he%20New%20War

I think Bush is very lucky that this was released so soon to the election, 1 day isn't enough for people to realize what was said on the tape. Regardless of whether it is all true or not, there are lots of damaging quotes from Bin Laden that would have made for great talking points.

A couple of my favourite are:

"It never occurred to us that the Command-in-Chief of the American Armed Forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone at the time when they most needed him. But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers we were given three times the period required to execute the operations"

and while talking about his goal to bankrupt the US as they did Russia

"(US Government) has helped al-Qa'ida to achieve those enormous results. And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States even if the intentions differ"

I think the most important lines of all though talk about why he did it "The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that". And how it can be stopped " ... your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qa'ida. No, your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security, has automatically guaranteed its own security."

Seems like you have a lot of respect for what he said, or have no respect for the intellucual capacity of the American voter, if you think this could harm Bush.

Rivux · 11-01-2004, 11:44 PM

A little from column A a little from Column B.

I respect his views and his right to defend his home, if someone helped a country to attack the US, you can bet the US would retaliate against both the attacker and the accomplice. He is not attacking the US just for ****s and giggles, he is doing it for a very specific reason, which he outlined in the tape. The fact that Bush stands there and screams over and over that Bin Laden and his ilk hate freedom either shows the intelligence of Bush or his willingness to lie to the American people.

awall19 · 11-01-2004, 11:53 PM

>The fact that Bush stands there and screams over and over that Bin Laden and his ilk hate freedom either shows the intelligence of Bush or his willingness to lie to the American people.

in all fairness lots of the shady stuff happens on both sides. search for stuff like
Turkey + Kurds + slaughter + Clinton
and you will see that there are lots of recurring problems with how our country handles foreign affairs.

Isreal has some disguisting foreign policies of its own, and our blind support (and often helping hand) to their administration is probably responsible for at least 10 - 20% of everything wrong with the world today.

**John Scott** · 11-01-2004, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivux

A little from column A a little from Column B.

I respect his views and his right to defend his home, if someone helped a country to attack the US, you can bet the US would retaliate against both the attacker and the accomplice. He is not attacking the US just for ****s and giggles, he is doing it for a very specific reason, which he outlined in the tape. The fact that Bush stands there and screams over and over that Bin Laden and his ilk hate freedom either shows the intelligence of Bush or his willingness to lie to the American people.

Rivix, his home is Saudi Arabia. We've never attacked his home.

And, yes, those Muslims hate freedom. Al least in our sense of the word. They do not believe in giving people the right to choose whether or not to sin - they legislate morality. Go over there and play around with one of their women and see how fast your head gets lopped off.

evilregis · 11-01-2004, 11:59 PM

It's an interesting thing to read. To beat your enemy you must know your enemy. As Rivux said, it's not like he just woke up one day from a dream and thought he should start a campaign against the United States. Also, as Rivux stated, his statement as to what started the ball rolling on this is quite moving.

Quote:

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. The bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorized and displaced I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood, and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high-rises demolished over their residents rockets raining down on our homes without mercy the situations was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child powerless except for his screams.

We have it so goddamn easy that we don't know what other cultures/countries go through on a daily basis.

I would encourage everyone to read it. Again, this is your enemy. Know your enemy.

**John Scott** · 11-02-2004, 12:03 AM

Evilregfis, at least you know him to be the enemy. A few others here seem ready to elect him President.

Rivux · 11-02-2004, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

And, yes, those Muslims hate freedom. Al least in our sense of the word. They do not believe in giving people the right to choose whether or not to sin - they legislate morality. Go over there and play around with one of their women and see how fast your head gets lopped off.

Bush is trying to force Americans to not have the choice of abortion or gay marriage along with a number of other things. Every society puts limits on what their citizens are allowed to do, just because one nation doesn't have the exact same limits that we do, doesn't make them 'freedom haters'.

But this thread was to be about the transcript itself and I think evilregis quoted one of the better passages. This was Bin Laden at his most coherent I believe, in terms of why he has done what he has done, what he plans to do in the future and what can be done to stop him. What bothered me the most was the reaction from both Kerry and Bush, that they ignored 99% of what was said on the tape, but I guess that is expected a few days before an election.

evilregis · 11-02-2004, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Rivix, his home is Saudi Arabia. We've never attacked his home.

I think the problem is that he sees a world super power supporting Israel and aiding them in the demolition and destruction of these Muslim nations. That there's a kinship between Muslims and that even though it's a separate nation, they are all one. Israel has encroached on and destroyed their Holy lands, driven them out of their territory...

That said, the flip side is that it is all a huge pile of dung that is convenient for him to say to validate his place in the world right now. I don't trust him any farther than I could throw him because he clearly isn't a true Islamist.

Again, as I said... it's just about getting insight into someone who is responsible for the greatest terror attack on US soil. Seems like something people might want to be inquisitive about.

**John Scott** · 11-02-2004, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivux

Bush is trying to force Americans to not have the choice of abortion or gay marriage along with a number of other things. Every society puts limits on what their citizens are allowed to do, just because one nation doesn't have the exact same limits that we do, doesn't make them 'freedom haters'.

But this thread was to be about the transcript itself and I think evilregis quoted one of the better passages. This was Bin Laden at his most coherent I believe, in terms of why he has done what he has done, what he plans to do in the future and what can be done to stop him. What bothered me the most was the reaction from both Kerry and Bush, that they ignored 99% of what was said on the tape, but I guess that is expected a few days before an election.

Rivux, Bush is trying to stop women from murdering their children and stop gay marriages? Really? Because last time I checked, there is what we call an "election", where everybody gets to vote for themseves. And you can get a referundum going and pass it with a majority vote if the elected politicians refuse to. So, we have freedom. If you don't like the freedom, elect other politicians who will give you the freedom you like.

Muslim Gov't like Bin Laden prefers aren't like that.

And what did you expect from Bush and Kerry? You want them to listen to the murderer of thousands of innocent people?

evilregis · 11-02-2004, 12:25 AM

I understand where you are coming from, John, but it's not quite germane to the issue Rivux quoted. At least not how I understood it. The ability for the people to call for a referendum is great. But as far as electing so-and-so... they can say one thing and do another. Once in they can veto a bill or pass bills (especially when that party has majority power) without so much as a blip. Barring impeachment there's nothing that can be done until it's time for the next election. So once that vote is made, the people are in a much less powerful position.

What you say about Muslim gov't is quite true, they rule very much by their religion and their customs and that is it. I think that is where much of the fear about a second term for Bush comes from. He's taken his religious beliefs and led them go so far as amending the constitution to enforce those beliefs.

I feel as though the separation of church and state is a separation that is dwindling. Though, I am not an American and I don't have a first hand account, so I could be off, but that certainly is the impression that has been portrayed on this side of the border. That is by US sources, btw.

Rivux · 11-02-2004, 12:26 AM

What did you say about rhetoric in that other thread? 'murdering their childer', jeez John, is there a need to be so melodramatic? For starters you can't have a referundum on every single bill, its impossible. Which means that the government (like Bush if he wins) can start passing bills that ban gay marriage and make abortions illegal. This doesn't meant that more then 50% of the country think both those things are ok, just because someone is elected doesn't mean his voters are behind him on every stance So yes, a government does limit what its citizens are able to do, even limit it on issues that some of them or most of them don't agree about.

As for the Bush/Kerry response, I expected them to say what they said, I was dissapointed that someone didn't make a more detailed response to the tape, but we only got the full transcript today and the election is tomorrow, it would be stupid for either of them to go too far out on a limb so close to the election.

About the transcript though, are there any parts in particular that you think he is lying about, or that you think should be looked at more carefully? Anything that stands out as something that may get picked up and talked about more in the coming weeks? I made the original post to get some reacions and comments about the transcript and its contents itself, so if have any comments, feel free to add them.

**John Scott** · 11-02-2004, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivux

What did you say about rhetoric in that other thread? 'murdering their childer', jeez John, is there a need to be so melodramatic?

Melodramatic? It's murder, plain and simple. It's a human child, being murdered.

Rivux · 11-02-2004, 12:39 AM

How far along was that baby, most states (if not all) don't allow abortions past the first trimester. Im no doctor, but that baby looks to be a bit older then that. If it is, then its murder, but legal abortions themselves, are not murder atleast under the law

As an aside, your a ****ing prick John. You make a big speech about not wanting things to get ugly and having close friends leave and you post that picture? By far the most offensive thing that has ever occured on these forums, good work John, Im sure everyone is proud of you.

**John Scott** · 11-02-2004, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivux

How far along was that baby, most states (if not all) don't allow abortions past the first trimester. Im no doctor, but that baby looks to be a bit older then that. If it is, then its murder, but legal abortions themselves, are not murder atleast under the law

As an aside, your a ****ing prick John. You make a big speech about not wanting things to get ugly and having close friends leave and you post that picture? By far the most offensive thing that has ever occured on these forums, good work John, Im sure everyone is proud of you.

You find a picture of an aborted baby offensive, but you embrace abortion? Odd stance there. From the way you hate Bush for being against it, I'd have thought you carry pictures of aborted babies in your wallet to cheer you up.

Atom · 11-02-2004, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivux

How far along was that baby, most states (if not all) don't allow abortions past the first trimester. Im no doctor, but that baby looks to be a bit older then that. If it is, then its murder, but legal abortions themselves, are not murder atleast under the law

As an aside, your a ****ing prick John. You make a big speech about not wanting things to get ugly and having close friends leave and you post that picture? By far the most offensive thing that has ever occured on these forums, good work John, Im sure everyone is proud of you.

He's making a simple point about the sanctity of human life. That hardly makes him a prick, Rivux. I see that this pic really upsets you, that's good.

Rivux · 11-02-2004, 12:48 AM

As funny as your remark was about me and the baby pictures, cuz oh my that was really funny. You failed to answer my question regarding how old that baby was? There is a difference between a fetus 1 month along and one 8 months along, the courts make a distinction and I make a distinction. It seems you fail to make distinction, which is cool cuz thats your right. But that picture you posted was not of a legal abortion, so using it in your case to fight the current abortion laws is irrelevant. That is NOT what a legally aborted fetus looks like, but it seems as if you don't mind, big on the fear mongering are you?