What Destroyed The World Trade Centers?

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[notepad]

Originally Posted by Jonathan VanSchaack

damn guys, your still at this? Think its time to LOCK this thread

...hmm, the most important subject in the whole recent history of mankind, the mass murder of thousands of U.S. citizens by its own government and it's time to lock the thread.

Is this your decision, or are you being influenced or pressured by outside forces?

This is same type censorship the Bush administration forces down the throat of all media, college professors and anyone who dares speak the truth.

Is the truth so terrible and painful that you cannot face, or hear it?


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[notepad]

Originally Posted by littleFella

Actually, the forces at work were very complicated so there is no simple formula to calculate the speed, velocity and accelleration of the falling debris. Those values will depend on many factors, such as the initial height and density of the material. A one ton steel beam will hit the ground much sooner than a pebble dropped from the same height, regardles of the friction of air. I believe those formulas were taught at grade 7 (at leat when I was at school), although admittedly, they were applicable to G-Force (9.81m/s^2, if I remember correctly) in vacuum spces.

I agree that the collapses and their processes were complicated, however, there is indeed a formula to calculate the rate at which the WTC buildings fell.

It's called Galileo's Law of Falling Bodies.



According to "The Law of Falling Bodies" as originally put forward by Galileo and still accepted by all scientists (as described in the Work Book Encyclopedia under Falling Bodies, Law of) the total distance traveled at the end of any specific time in a total vacuum is calculated by this formula:

Distance (d) = (32.16/2) x Time in Seconds Squared.

If there is any resistance encountered (as in 1350 foot tall WTC buildings), then speed and time of the falling body slows down in relation to the resistance. Thus the time of approx 10 seconds for the Towers to collapse indicates the Towers fell at approx the rate objects descend in a vacuum with no resistance.

Originally Posted by littleFella

Another problem with the veracity of your argument is the 110 stories of the buildings. This is misleading, since one of the buildings had a breaking point at about 1/2 of its height (i.e. approx. about 55 to 60 stories), the other was hit at about 70-something floor. Anything above does not count here.

Just prior to the first collapse, the top of the South Tower tipped to 23 degrees, but then it suddenly stopped its angular momentum, changed direction and fell straight down. At this point the upper segment was hanging over the edge by approximately 65 feet.



The only way the momentum of the falling top could have been changed in mid-collapse was to blast away a portion of EACH of the 47 core columns, causing the building to fall uniformly into its own footprint. How the Towers fell is impossible according to the "official" story because the gravitational potential energy of a skyscraper is nowhere near sufficient to destroy its own frame.

Originally Posted by littleFella

Also, you need to consider the steel structure of the building, which on the one hand should indeed slow down the free fall of debris (as you correctly observed), but on the other, that same steel structure of the bulding was basically a solid steel cage.

Not exactly. Besides having an massive outer envelope with 236 large exterior steel columns (you call it a cage), the buildings also incorporated an enormous interior core (filled with concrete) which consisted of 47 huge steel core columns that were welded and bolted together with steel plates. Each pf these central core colums extended deep into the bedrock far below the Towers.



Furthermore, there were steel trusses which crisscrossed, making a mesh that connected every other exterior column ...along with diagonal bracing and steel rods connecting the trusses.



If the government's theory of pancaking (the floors crashing down upon each other and causing the Towers' collapse) was true & valid, then much like a phonograph record slides down a center spindle, there would have much of the central core remaining after such a "pancake collapse."

Instead, the entire Tower structures, including the central core, was reduced to a homogenous dust cloud and a pile of chopped up steel beams.

Originally Posted by littleFella

If you know anything about the conductivity of solid materials, then you will know that they conduct vibrations extremely efficiently. It is conceivable (but a proof would need complicated formulas) that the integrity of elements below currently falling structures were affected and substantially weakened before those elements came in visually preceived contact with what fell on them.

I know that both steel and concrete are superior conductors of heat. Vibrations are not the issue here (unless you want to discuss theory into alternative technological advancements, or vibration induced destruction of morphous materials).

As for conductivity of the solid materials in the WTC Towers, the solid steel columns and the buildings' concrete dissipated the jets' subsequent fuel fires and the heat generated locally quite quickly into other areas. This fact is supported by the people peering out of the building during the localized fires that burned elsewhere in the building.

Obviously these individuals were unaware they were touching molten steel!



Again, the gov's claim that the jet fuel fires reached temperatures high enough to melt steel is false

Originally Posted by littleFella

If the last is true, then it could be accepted that the observed speed of collapse (8.5 seconds) was possible. After all, the density of the material was sufficiently high to cause very high accelleration, i.e. with each passing moment the material was falling down at a faster rate than a moment before. Newton explained that well over 200 years ago.

These are just some observations on the arguments you presented in this regard. Of course mine don't disprove the explosives theory, although personally this isn't where I would look for a proof of government's conspiracy.

Yes it is possible that the buildings could have collapsed in under 10 seconds; in fact they did. However, since we're not living in a vacuum, it's safe to assume that the WTC Towers could not have collapsed into themselves, encountering MOUNTAINS of resistance, without something removing that resistance ...namely, explosives.

Not a government conspiracy? ...hmmm, let's see:

* destruction closely resembles demolition by explosives

* military stand down on 9/11/2001

* all evidence quickly removed, shipped overseas, or buried

* numerous government statements about 911 are outright lies

* 911 Commission Report false

* important details ignored, or covered up

* etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc....


Sounds like a conspiracy to me!


Allow me to suggest you pick up a copy of WAKING UP FROM OUR NIGHTMARE





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[notepad]

Larry Silverstein was the leaseholder and manager of the World Trade Center Buildings. Silverstein took control of the WTC buildings just a few months before the atrocities of 911.



I think Larry Silverstein should be investigated, charged and arrested for insurance fraud and possibly conspiracy to murder. On September 11th, 2001 Silverstein had inside information that the buildings he managed were to be destroyed by demolitions.

It is now common knowledge that he (Silverstein) admitted publicly (on a PBS documentary) the scenario on 9/11/2001 by which he was complicit in the destruction of at least one building, the 7 World Trade Center in New York City.

Watch and hear Silverstein admit knowing WTC Building 7 was about to be demolished.

Listen as demolition workers use the same term "pull it" when referring to bringing down a building.

In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7.

Silverstein Properties' estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million. Thus the building's collapse resulted in a profit of about $500 million. Silverstein already has plans to construct more death traps, er, buildings.

Why is this criminal allowed to collect millions of dollars from insurance underwriters (billions when you figure in the Twin Towers too) when obviously it's a case of blatant insurance fraud?

If I were to burn my house down and file an insurance claim, then tell someone about it later (who reported me), I would be arrested and charged with a crime.

Mr. Silverstein's comments also stand in direct contradiction to the findings of the extensive FEMA report which stated, "WTC 7 fell after burning for 7 hours", failing to mention anything about Silverstein's remarks.

Am I the only one who thinks there's something VERY wrong with this picture? Larry Silverstein is obviously a criminal and I repeat ...he ADMITTED wrong doing on the PBS documentary; everyone's heard and seen it ...why aren't the authorities acting on this information?


See these websites for more info:

http://serendipity.ptpi.net/wot/wtc7newspaper.htm
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/pullit.html
http://serendipity.ptpi.net/wot/wtc_other.htm
http://www.infowars.com/print/Sept11/FDNY.htm

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[gorillaboy]

notepad, do you sleep?

[notepad]

...yes, with one eye open.

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[SVB]

I know a girl who sleeps with both her eyes open, for real.

[gorillaboy]

Originally Posted by Stephen Bradley

I know a girl who sleeps with both her eyes open, for real.

You need to stop hanging out at the morgue.

[SVB]

On that subject, I was down at my uncles today, and there was this dead girl lying in some room. I was just sorta sitting there, then all of a sudden she sat upright, dead straight. I completely freaked out! Was like a zombie. Uncle just laughed at me, and said dead people do that sometimes.

[Atom]

I roomed with a guy in two different drug rehabs (which was quite a weird coincidence, BTW, because they were in two different states and staff chooses who you room with, but any how ..) and he and his girlfriend were all wigged out on heroin and they drove right into a moving train. She was killed, and he needed extensive facial surgery done, plate in his head and face etc.. and he slept with one eye open. It couldn't be helped due to the surgery, and every single night without fail, he fell asleep with headphones on listening to Metallica/Enter Sandman. He said it was the only way he could fall asleep. lol

Originally Posted by notepad

..why aren't the authorities acting on this information?

I think we all know why.

[Ferre]

yeah, here's a clue from a European source, I don't know if this is any news in the States but here we laugh our brains out.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...6370%2C00.html

These guys at the US whitehouse are sooo stupid.

And liar/hypocrite Bush DID smoke pot btw (besides of the coke and booze), he only doesn't want 'kids' to do what he did, accordeing to his own words.

Report: Friend secretly taped Bush

On one tape, Bush explains that he told one prominent evangelical that he would not "kick gays, because I'm a sinner. How can I differentiate sin?"

I heard they have some weird sexual 'ceremonies' at that skull&bones clubhouse. I also heard his dad likes young boys. (there's been a covered up scandal involving young gay prostitutes being smuggled into the whitehouse and Bush sr. check google)

See, people down here (Holland) are not taking anything 'official' comming from the states very serious anymore, we're safe and dry and just watch how that ridiculous soap opera balloon is going to blow up in some faces.

[Jonathan VanSchaack]

Originally Posted by notepad

...hmm, the most important subject in the whole recent history of mankind, the mass murder of thousands of U.S. citizens by its own government and it's time to lock the thread.

Is this your decision, or are you being influenced or pressured by outside forces?

This is same type censorship the Bush administration forces down the throat of all media, college professors and anyone who dares speak the truth.

Is the truth so terrible and painful that you cannot face, or hear it?


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no, I'm just someone that values time, and just see this as a waste, maybe the first 8 pages we ok, but 12? :-p

calculate how much time you spent on typing researching ect.. then lets say, i'm gonna value most ppl @ $60 an hour, thats how much you've given to this thread. and its hard for me to see that much time not used for productive things

for for another thing I live in NY, so dont think I dont care for the dead, I choose to be neutral in this conversation basicly because politics and business don't see eye to eye

[Ferre]

No one on thise earth is forcing you to read this topic brother, try it once, it workes, just don't click on that link anymore if it is taking too much of your expensive time

Others like me, and obviously a few others are having a very interesting and worthfull conversation and exchange of facts here.

[notepad]

Originally Posted by Jonathan VanSchaack

no, I'm just someone that values time, and just see this as a waste, maybe the first 8 pages we ok, but 12? :-p

calculate how much time you spent on typing researching ect.. then lets say, i'm gonna value most ppl @ $60 an hour, thats how much you've given to this thread. and its hard for me to see that much time not used for productive things

for for another thing I live in NY, so dont think I dont care for the dead, I choose to be neutral in this conversation basicly because politics and business don't see eye to eye

Please tell the citizens of New York and the families of the deceased 911 victims that getting to the bottom of the WTC murders is a waste of time.

If you choose to be neutral, that's your prerogative. I'm a businessman myself and don't have a problem volunteering a few hours a week; furthermore, I think knowing the truth about 911 as everyone's business.

Perhaps you need to re-think your contribution(s) as an American citizen and applaud those who strive towards justice ...maybe devote a little of your own "valuable" time to help expose those parties responsible for the 911 crime.

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[Ferre]

he's just "beeing a good boy"

[gorillaboy]

Ferre, that news story was "big news" in the US too.

[notepad]

Originally Posted by gorillaboy

Ferre, that news story was "big news" in the US too.

Yes GW and his boyfriend(s) still are big news here in the States.

Bush seems to be sucking the whole country dry.