What Destroyed The World Trade Centers? - Page 19

notepad · 03-15-2005, 05:15 PM

I'm surprised Stephen Bradley hasn't commented yet on another strange post occurrence in this string ...post #354 was added at exactly 09:11 AM (Western Europe time).

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Rokerijdude11 · 03-17-2005, 11:13 AM

The most interesting thing about this poll is how it basically reflects the United States as a cross section.....yes i know that all who participated were not Americans but hear me out
what the poll is illustrating is what is mirrored in US homes across America

you will note the 2 choices that have recieved the most attention. Well of course the only 2 logical ones right?
Well the interesting thing is the 50/50 split..... half believe that the plane crashes compiled with the fires caused the damage to the towers bringing them down.

The other half Believing that there was a demolition of the towers to bring them down..

thats whats intersting a 50/50 split just like the elections, and just about every poll concerning either the towers, afghanistan, iraq, Iran,WMDS, peak oil, etc etc etc.

there is a deep divide or SPLIT in the country. It has in effect been fractured.

They had hoped that by pulling off 9-11, and other things that they would rally and polarize the country to all the same pole. All positive pole, no negative similar to what they achieved in WW2 with pearl harbor. Yet.......
It didnt go that way for them, there was no internet inWW2 there was no alternate to the media lies. You got what you got and made your decision

Today we have the net, and world travel as an every day event. People come and go daily, flying to europe and other contries across the globe. Always getting a chance to hear the other side of the coin..... along with that and the net and people like myself and notepad and ferre and MANY MANY others. who are here weeding through all the info

and trying to come to the right conclusion, and putting it out there for YOU the general PUBLIC to read and assimilate for yourselves. The net has been a wonderfully helpful tool for us
they never saw it coming????

Yeah right!!!! Always remember that the internet was once a net used by the Military machine, and the feds as a backup system to tie all systems together....It was for defense purposes.

It is NO MISTAKE that they unleashed the web to the general public......It is like them turning Saddam loose with chemical WMD's Not so long ago. They gave us the rope in which we will use to make it easier for them to earmark who may be trouble in the future.
proverbially the rope in which to hang ourselves

It is a back door into our private lives, and habits. Microsoft was absorbed by the feds, and is using Ms software, and back doors to keep electronic tabs on all of us in the US.

You have heard of Carnivoure? the large NSA computer designed as a HUGE internet FILTER?? ALL E_MAIL filters through Carnivour ALL!! It is nothing but a huge electronic spy designed to infringe upon your freedoms As is the entire internet

If folks like myself, and NOTEPAD here believe that what we write and what we post has gone un-noticed by the machine .....We deserve then what we get

I know that at least 3 manilla folders are out there with ROKERIJDUDE11 on the top. They contain all pertinent info that i have assimilated. the contacts i have made who is on the same page with me etc. etc. etc. not to mention my home addy my wife and kids info where i have worked what my military clearances were during and after enlistment etc. etc. etc.

the internet will be used against us in the very near futurethe patriot act and part two have seen to that it will come of age

but i digress it is fascinating that rather than the huge rally they expected istead turned into a fracture of morals beliefs and society as a whole in America the lines are soo deep right now it is scary the last time America was divided this deeply it resulted in the American civil War

as the lines were too deep to be crossed or smoothed over
you notice how they continually refer to peepes like me and Notepad and ferre and others as "CONSPIRACY theorist"
we are continually berated and called conspiracist etc etc etc. well 1-50 people maybe its a conspiracy but when the numbers of people start to climb to the tens of thousands you have long crossed that gray line out of conspiracy into the black of reality

even 1000 could be dismissed as conspiracist but when the number is in the tens to hundreds of thousands the conspiracy takes a new meaning

you see for the 1-10,000 of us who are not AFRAID to speak out on this there are Hundreds if not Thousands more who belive like we do and just are AFRAID to say so OUT LOUD or in PRINT

you dont believe that????????

look at the pole and look at the elections in the US
50/50
this thread only has maybe10% of the polled taking place in conversation.......yet there is clearly a divide of 50/50 among the other 90 percent who choose not to speak at all rather they let theyre votes do the talking for them

sorry i have rattled on long enough ill go for now

RD

gorillaboy · 03-17-2005, 11:39 AM

Rokerijdude11, I'd love to read your post but I have to watch CNN to get the latest on the Michael Jackson trial.

Maybe I'll read it tonight.

Oh, wait, I have to watch the NCAA men's basketball tourny tonight. And then I need to see what Congress concluded after talking to the MLB players about steroids.

By the time I'm done watching TV it'll be time for bed.

I'm not sure when I'll have time to read your post. But I'm sure it's very informative.

Rokerijdude11 · 03-17-2005, 07:46 PM

notepad · 03-17-2005, 08:55 PM

Great insight and observations Rokerijdude11 ...gorillaboy, don't forget all that housekeeping you need to do too ...so get a move on.

To implement a change in our government, there are basically two goals to be achieved.

1 - bring awareness to the people ...about government corruption, its crimes and its tactics of using the media and the public school system to cover-up its crimes ...of how big gov has, and continues to keep people misinformed, confused and afraid

2 - empower and enable people with a clear list of options ...things they can actually do to help actuate a positive change

After their disbelief and denial, the end result of enlightening people with the truth about 911 always comes down to the individual first accepting such a reality, with he or she then asking:

..."what can we as ordinary people actually do ...we're outgunned, out financed and already overwhelmed by our everyday tasks and problems."

It's difficult for most people to accept ...that their government was/is complicit in the 911 attacks and a subsequent cover-up. However, once people reach the acceptance stage, they then need a game plan ...actual, definite steps they can follow to fight back against the absolute corruption we're witnessing.

Short of mass civil disobedience, riots in the streets, total chaos and military intervention, I have begun compiling a list of things people can do to implement change, cause awareness in others and hopefully bring the perpetrators to justice.

Perhaps others here can help add to, and/or refine this list:

* Learn to think for yourself

* Liberate yourself from depending on major media to provide anything other than hype

* Research important issues using the Internet

* Educate yourself on key government crimes such as the Israel attack of the USS Liberty, Waco, TX, the OK City bombing, 911

* Discover the facts about 911; become aware of what big government is really doing and tell others

* Withdraw all funds from large, networked banks & start banking at small, community banks

* Boycott corporations and products which wreak havoc upon our environment, hurt people, or which are deemed detrimental to our economy

* Safeguard your savings by purchasing gold, or real property; reduce your credit card debt

* Refuse to invest with, or do business with companies that made political donations to the Bush campaign

* Encourage our soldiers not to fight in illegal wars against innocent countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, N. Korea and the others targeted by the current dictatorship

* Voice your disapproval of the current administration by contacting your representatives, your local newspapers, radio and TV stations demanding real truth be told

* Begin using "less" ...instead of wasteful excess; be more conservation minded and look for alternative, independent ways to provide for yourself

If only 50% of the Americans who know something is VERY wrong with their government ...if each of them would do just one of the above, the combined effect would have a huge and positive influence towards positive change.

...do you have what it takes?

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notepad · 03-18-2005, 03:38 AM

An executive at Underwriters Laboratories (UL), the company that certified the steel used in the construction of the World Trade Center, questioned the common theory that fuel fires caused the Twin Towers to collapse.

In a letter dated 11/11/04, UL executive Kevin Ryan called on Frank Gayle, director of the government team NIST that has spent two years studying how the trade center was built and why it fell, to "do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel."

Steel at NIST's WTC Investigation

Text of an e-mail letter from Kevin Ryan to Frank Gayle:

From: Kevin R Ryan/SBN/ULI
To: frank.gayle@nist.gov

Date: 11/11/2004

Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year. I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.

There continues to be a number of "experts" making public claims about how the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at 2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to collapse is the airplane fuel . . . burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The steel in that five-floor area melts." Additionally, the newspaper that quotes him says "Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center collapse support Brown's theory."

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.

The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear things up (3), and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by the Associated Press (4), in which you were ready to "rule out weak steel as a contributing factor in the collapse". The evaluation of paint deformation and spheroidization seem very straightforward, and you noted that the samples available were adequate for the investigation. Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation.

However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings, as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the building's steel core to "soften and buckle"(5). Additionally this summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250C". To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures need to be above 1100C (6). However, this new summary report suggests that much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.

This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.

There is no question that the events of 9/11 are the emotional driving force behind the War on Terror. And the issue of the WTC collapse is at the crux of the story of 9/11. My feeling is that your metallurgical tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux. Either you can make sense of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly, or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global decisions based on disinformation and "chatter".

Thanks for your efforts to determine what happened on that day. You may know that there are a number of other current and former government employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth. I've copied one of these people on this message as a sign of respect and support. I believe your work could also be a nucleus of fact around which the truth, and thereby global peace and justice, can grow again. Please do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.

1. http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive...overstory.html

2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 61st edition, pg D-187

3. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P3Mechanic...sisofSteel.pdf

4. http://www.voicesofsept11.org/archive/911ic/082703.php

5. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACWTCS...101904WEB2.pdf (pg 11)

6. http://www.forging.org/FIERF/pdf/ffaaMacSleyne.pdf

Kevin Ryan
Site Manager
Environmental Health Laboratories
A Division of Underwriters Laboratories

South Bend

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notepad · 03-18-2005, 03:50 AM

In July of 2004, The Power Hour mailed DVD copies of "911 In Plane Site" to 20 government agencies including The DoD, The U.S. House of Representatives, The Senate, The CIA, The FBI, The Department of Homeland Security, & The President of The United States. To date, they have received only one response to their inquiry. Below is a copy of the letter sent to Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld.

================================================

Dave vonKleist
P.O. Box 85
Versailles, Mo 65084
(573) 378-6049

Honorable Donald H. Rumsfeld
Secretary of Defense
1000 Defense Pentagon
Washington, DC 20301

Dear Mr. Rumsfeld,

Enclosed you will find a copy of a very controversial documentary about the events which took place on September 11, 2001. It presents video and photographic evidence of a potential cover-up concerning information released in regard to the 911 attacks. This video is being distributed, free of charge, to Governmental agencies, the media, investigative and law enforcement organizations, and the families of the September 11 victims.

We ask that you or a staff member please review this information and respond in written form to answer some of the questions raised in the documentary including, but not limited to the following:

(a.) Why were there so many reports of bombs or explosions going off in and around the World Trade Center before any buildings collapsed?

(b.) Why did firefighters, reporters and other eyewitnesses report hearing explosions being detonated and why did they describe a demolition-like, pancake collapse of the WTC?

(c.) Why did a FOX News employee report seeing no windows on “Flight 175” a commercial United Airlines jetliner and why did an eyewitness in the streets of New York say that the plane hitting the second tower was not an American Airlines jet?

(d.) What is the bright flash seen right before impact on both the North Tower and the South Tower, as captured in at least five known pieces of video footage?

(e.) Was there a “pod” of some sort attached to the bottom of “Flight 175” and, if so, why was it there?

(f.) How does a plane 125 feet wide & 155 feet long fit into a hole at the Pentagon which was only 16 feet across and leave no signs of wreckage (wings, tail section, fuselage, seats, luggage, passengers, engines, et cetera) on the lawn as seen in photographs taken moments after the impact and before the outer wall had collapsed?

We eagerly await your written response.

Sincerely,

Dave vonKleist
The Power Hour Radio Program

Below is the response received from Donald H. Rumsfeld's office:

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Ferre · 03-18-2005, 06:06 PM

And what about the fact that the head pigeon was on the steering wheel on 9/11, pretending to defend America. Opens more questions, the dude was exactly there where he had to be because was engaged leading a massive drill -- a wargames exercise.. Exercising to prevent exactly what happened in reality.

Who believes in fairy tales? Another 'weird' coincidence. Never in history there has been a public desaster with so many "weird coinsidenses".

http://www.geocities.com/ndwinl/911/...al3_3-OPLD.txt

gorillaboy · 03-18-2005, 06:13 PM

I just hope that Bush and Cheney are still around when the truth is revealed.

Atom · 03-18-2005, 06:28 PM

Instead of "We are not interested in contributing to the many conspiracy theories regarding the events of that tragic day", that letter from Harold Heilsnis may have well just said: We are not interested in facts or truth, period.

I have a question. Is the federal reserve actually (these 10 or so) international bankers' money?

Ferre · 03-18-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atom

I have a question. Is the federal reserve actually (these 10 or so) international bankers' money?

Yes. In fact, The United States of America does not "own" any money at all, dollars are a document of dept actually. It's a complicated story but what it comes down to is that the US never became actually independent, the European/British banks kept control of the money after America became 'independent'. In fact it's still the European bankers, and "The Crown of England" that are actually still owning the finances of the US. Nothing changed after 'independent day' it only changed in the minds of the people.

..but that is a complete different topic.

Atom · 03-18-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

Yes. In fact, The United States of America does not "own" any money at all, dollars are a document of dept actually. It's a complicated story but what it comes down to is that the US never became actually independent, the European/British banks kept control of the money after America became 'independent'. In fact it's still the European bankers, and "The Crown of England" that are actually still owning the finances of the US. Nothing changed after 'independent day' it only changed in the minds of the people.

..but that is a complete different topic.

So it's these 10 or so very wealthy international bankers (of which two are American) that are the actual puppeteers pulling the strings that produce the incentive for the greed and consequent corruption at the top level of American government, is that right?

Ferre · 03-18-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atom

So it's these 10 or so very wealthy international bankers (of which two are American) that are the actual puppeteers pulling the strings that produce the incentive for the greed and consequent corruption at the top level of American government, is that right?

Well, sort off. It shifts though, the petro-pharmaceutical industries play a great part too, and there's the [Those-we-can-not-mention-because-everyone-is-programmed-to-inmidiately-attack-everything-that-could reek-like-anti-semitism] who play their part too.

Check out 'bilderberg' in google to get a view on the matter, it's a long story.

Btw, if you ask me who I think actually planned and did the 9/11 attack it's the CIA/Israel. Or should I say elCIAda.

**John Scott** · 03-18-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferre

Well, sort off. It shifts though, the petro-pharmaceutical industries play a great part too, and there's the [Those-we-can-not-mention-because-everyone-is-programmed-to-inmidiately-attack-everything-that-could reek-like-anti-semitism] who play their part too.

Check out 'bilderberg' in google to get a view on the matter, it's a long story.

Btw, if you ask me who I think actually planned and did the 9/11 attack it's the CIA/Israel. Or should I say elCIAda.

Oh, you went there. Blame it on the Jews. Weren't you just saying that Bush was Hitler, and now you appear more ideoligically aligned.

Ferre · 03-18-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnScott

Oh, you went there. Blame it on the Jews. Weren't you just saying that Bush was Hitler, and now you appear more ideoligically aligned.

See what I mean? I don't blame it on the jews, what I do say is that there is plenty of circomstancial evidence and also motives that point to the Israely government (mossad) and the CIA (+ certain government individuals).

Actually when you look back at the whole 9/11 event and what has been revealed and proven thus far doesn't look like any arab terrorist group did it at all, there is enough circomstantial evidence to at least start arrests and an investigation.

For me and many other people the single fact that this is not happening indicates a massive cover up. This and the other fact that the 9/11 commission didn't even attempted to do a real investigation.

C'mon John, don't tell me I blame it on the jews. I blame it on corruption and criminal greed. I don't blame it on Americans either, what I say is that we have enough reasons to start looking into some other parts of the puzzle that are still missing. Crimes are commited by people, sometimes they are organised and then it's organized crime, not "jews" or "Americans" John, not for me that is.