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View Poll Results: What caused the WTC buildings to fall?
faulty, poor grade construction steel 2 1.69%
jet airliners crashing into the towers 23 19.49%
subsequent fires weakening the structures 14 11.86%
a combination of airliners crashing & the fires 27 22.88%
a bomb or missile attached to the plane(s) 4 3.39%
combination of all of the above 3 2.54%
angry UFO alien death ray beam 16 13.56%
strategically placed demolition charges 29 24.58%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-24-2005, 08:47 PM   #561 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TeKBuzz
It doesn't take into account the fact that it had no where near its fuel capacity at time of impact. Also the fact that it didn't "instantly combust" means that its not equivalent to the displacement force of all that dynomite.
I think you are right cause the pdf didn't mention neither one of those things. I found a site which says:

Quote:
Progressive Collapse

Domino, Pancake, Zipper, ... Choose Your Metaphor

A feature of the Twin Tower collapses that needed some explaining was how they pulverized themselves from the crash zones, staying centered all the way to the ground. Why didn't the tops topple, like any other vertical structure would topple from the fulcrum of the damaged area?

Enter progressive collapse, a theory so versatile it applies to all of the accepted collapse theories. Progressive collapse would be the umbrella giving a legitimate sound to the domino, pancake, and zipper metaphors used by educators such as Thomas Eagar.



Typing progressive collapse into a search engine reveals that structural engineers are "discovering new ways to deal with this deadly phenomenon." If one researches the history of total progressive collapse of buildings one will find it is a recent phenomenon, apparently starting with the Oklahoma City Bombing, and then rearing its ugly head again in the 9/11/01 attack.

The problem with the progressive collapse theory is that it's very difficult to actually build something that will exhibit this behavior.
Then that site goes on to describe all the collapse theories around:
http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/collapse/index.html


Maybe this will help you.
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Old 03-24-2005, 09:32 PM   #562 (permalink)
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Has the passenger list of the Pentagon plane been discussed here?
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:24 PM   #563 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gorillaboy
Has the passenger list of the Pentagon plane been discussed here?
I know I have posted something about passenger lists, I also remember something not correct and official government lies regarding those lists but don't really recall the details.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:46 AM   #564 (permalink)
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Reseach maight not be done in a proper way by the government, others don't let that stop them from going on...

Welcome to Flight 77.info - Documenting the legal process to obtain confiscated videos showing Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon on 9/11

And this here: http://www.wtc7.net/
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:10 AM   #565 (permalink)
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Has the passenger list of the Pentagon plane been discussed here?
I found some strange anomalies on the plane's passenger lists from 911. It appears that the media, or someone might be faking the number of people who died on 911 by publishing fake passenger lists.

Of the passengers and crew of Flights 11, 77, 175 & 93, if you search The Social Security Death Index, only 22%, 22%, 28% and 13% respectively are listed.

The 9-11 Victims Compensation Fund is where our government opened up the Treasury and gave family members of those who lost their lives that day lots of money. In return, these families were basically required to keep quiet about anything concerning 9-11.

Here are the results; remember as you read the number of victims whose family members sought compensation, how powerful the notion of human greed is.

Flight 11: of the 92 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 20 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 20 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams

====

Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 64 people, only five on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

William Caswell
Eddie Dillard
Ian Gray
John Sammartino
Leonard Taylor

====

Flight 175: of the 65 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 18 are listed in the SSDI (28%)

Of these 65 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Michael C. Tarrou
Gloria Debarrera
Timothy Ward

====

Flight 93: of the 45 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 6 are listed in the SSDI (13%)

Of these 45 people, none are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

No one

====

Very strange is that of the 266 people that we're told died on these jets, only 11 relatives applied for compensation.

Can you believe that not a single relative from Flight 93 applied for compensation?

Were all the relatives of the victims so rich that they weren't eligible to receive compensation? No, that's not it. (The minimum federal award was $250,000, and the average pay-out was about $1.8 million. The recipients only had to make the agreement that they couldn’t sue the airlines.)

9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report

Oddly, but consistent with everything concerning 9-11, the actual complete list of the people who benefited has been omitted from this report. Even without this, it does contain an interesting fact. According to the report, 98% of all the people who suffered a loss on 9-11 took the fund money. The average payment was $1.8 million.

But here's where it gets really strange. According to the government, here are the number of people who accepted the compensation fund:

> Out of a total of 92 people on Flight 11, only 65 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)

> Out of a total of 65 people on Flight 175, only 46 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)

> Out of a total of 64 people on Flight 77, only 33 accepted the 9-11 fund (52%)

> Out of a total of 45 people on Flight 93, only 25 accepted the 9-11 fund (56%)

Does any of this seem a little odd to you? Or is it possible that the passengers on 9-11 were "magical?"


The names of the victims can be found here:

1 - http://911digitalarchive.org/objects/3.pdf (PDF)

2 - http://www.september11victims.com/se...ist_by_abc.asp

3 - http://www.public-action.com/911/uapassngerlist/

4 - http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/mem...lists/by-name/

5 - flight 11 passenger list ...not found...???
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Old 03-25-2005, 05:01 AM   #566 (permalink)
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A lot of people who had family die in 9/11 are not going to make a claim to the 9/11 victims fund.

Social Security Death Index doesn't seem like the most reliable way of seeing if somebody is dead. I put my brother's name in there, and they don't list him, even though he died 5 or 6 years ago.
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Old 03-25-2005, 05:07 AM   #567 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnScott
A lot of people who had family die in 9/11 are not going to make a claim to the 9/11 victims fund.

Social Security Death Index doesn't seem like the most reliable way of seeing if somebody is dead. I put my brother's name in there, and they don't list him, even though he died 5 or 6 years ago.
I'm sorry to hear about your brother John Scott despite it being a long time ago - I just feel I had to say that. Sorry to be a bit out of subject.
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Old 03-25-2005, 05:43 AM   #568 (permalink)
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Thanks Zain. Unfortunately, we all going to die sooner or later. ....
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:16 AM   #569 (permalink)
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so


did i read Correctly? Somebody here was Banned for words they typed on the screen? Notepad was banned for that? So once again i happen along what i think to be a community of progressive thinkers comfortable enough in theyre own shoes to allow differing opinions and alas it is just like the so many others i have visited before it??

Police state? it appears that some of the police action has migrated to the forum in the form of Censorship?
I know you couldnt have banned him Just for the "lil girl" comment? Cmon John your a big Guy that didnt offend you. Your intelligent John, you could easily have handled what you didnt like with more typed words.

why is it that you chose the choice of Censorship?? dont you see censorship has been largely responsible for the police state you mentioned in above posts?

dont you see the road you begin to travel down with censorship?

Why is it that when there are differeing points of view, that egos step in, and someone has to block, delete, re-write, or ban someone because they didnt like what was said. Isnt this a democracy? Arent we free to speak our minds? Dosent the first ammendmant cover this for us? I mean if you do not like whats being said you dont have to read it right?

If someone was posting nastiness or personal attacks or something that would offend all in the community a warning would have been good


in your defense i have not been here long so maybe you DID warn NP in the past????
But Censorship is never the answer.....

how do we ever expect to come to some sort of amicable solution to the disagreements we have why cant we work together using all of our intellect to find the truth rather than point fingers and be so indignant

im just asking why is all not wanting to stir the pot or anything

i had THOUGHT i HAD FINALLY FOUND an INTELLIGENT MATURE forum in which to get to the bottome of 9-11

is it in the end going to be the same as all the others? you know John that this was gonna be a touchy thread due the very nature of its content you also knew that at some point peoples passion would take over and have them say things they normally may not say......there certainly has to be more to it than the lil girl comment???????

you made no room for fervor ,passion,heat of the moment posts?
thas weird to me
it seemed so progressive here iwas really thinkin wow this is a cool place different than the others

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Old 03-25-2005, 09:26 AM   #570 (permalink)
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Rokerijdude11,

This place is better than anywhere else. It's still a private forum and John can do whatever he wants. I don't agree w/ the action. It seems like insults were flying from both sides. But whatever.

Notepad was getting under john's skin for a while and that last post pushed him over the edge.

With that said, it does suck that notepad is banned. I really enjoyed his postings. I especially liked how he included the links to his resources. I've definitely learned a lot from his posts.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:37 AM   #571 (permalink)
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agreed it is Johns forum and i dont want to step on any toes

thanks for the info on John and Notepad having a riff for a while i knew there had to be more to it ok that somewhat answers my questions

No i dont agree with it either as i feel Notepad had brought some Good info and such on the subject but as you say its not my forum so not my choice either thank you for the reponse
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:41 PM   #572 (permalink)
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Aw c'mon guys. If I can't ban somebody who says that I'm a little girl whose sh1t don't stink, then who can I ban?

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Old 03-25-2005, 12:44 PM   #573 (permalink)
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That still cracks me up!
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:47 PM   #574 (permalink)
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Watch it Gorillaboy. I haven't banned anybody yet today and my ban-finger is itchy.



(J/k, of course. )
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:05 PM   #575 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnScott
Aw c'mon guys. If I can't ban somebody who says that I'm a little girl whose sh1t don't stink, then who can I ban?

I'd have done the same thing.

Wisdom is not for everyone, and you will always have people that simply do not see it. What you did was wise, IMO, John.

As for the members, if you have any wisdom at all, you will realize that you cannot disrespect the forum owner, unless you want to get banned, of course, period.

Not to worry though, I have a feeling that ol' Notepad is still with us, in spirit.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:07 PM   #576 (permalink)
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He'll have to log in for that Atom, posts aren't viewable unless your logged in.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:08 PM   #577 (permalink)
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